Something that must be said.

I admit there is no perfect awnser Walldo. Except maybe the rewards thing which still doesn’t get everyone out and about but…I alone have this opinion that if people were out there giving it their best, and still losing…and the imms were to “Immtervene” then with handouts…that it would be well deserved. Now, I realize that about 90% of everyone else does not agree with that statement so I can’t really say I suggest that. But I would suggest rewards for actual effort made.

Baxtalo, as much as I’d like to argue and point out a few things, for the sake of improving the situation I’m going to ignore that one.

Ocerion, you may not know what you’re talking about. I don’t want to go into any detail about any of that stuff because it’s pretty IC and Walldo always yells at me about that stuff and censors me.

What exactly do you expect the rebels of any timeline to do without their own ship manufacturing facilities? I mean, honestly. Whatever clan that helps them will be systematically wiped out along with the credits that are sunk into frames and components. Not to mention, there aren’t enough people to spread across the 4 clans there are already, so an extra engineering clan that’s hidden away or whatever would most likely be damn near empty.

As for handouts for “active rebels”, that’s just stupid. There would be so much whining and bitching the mud would crash. The immortals are damned if they do and damned if they don’t, there’s no way around it. I personally would rather see the immortals be in control of things, but my opinion doesn’t really mean anything on that.

And I wasn’t just picking on you with the whole “friends” thing, either. It’s a lot of people.

A simple point reward system for being an active rebel, who actively rebels, would be great. Anyone complaining about it would be welcome to…be active. As for what I’d expect the rebels to do, you may not remember this, but before last timeline the rebels got other people to build their ships after they went major, generally. Not every time, but usually.

Honestly I maintain the number one way to fix all of this is to full on reopen cloning with a full and detailed description of how it works right now, so none of us players are guessing, with at LEAST three cloning centers, if not even more than that. Maybe every clan can have one. Reopen cloning, work out its kinks as we move along.

This is an RP mud. PK is very much so a valid part of RP. Should it be treated trivially or such? No. However, if the ‘bad guys’ have captured a person and they run, do everything they can to avoid being caught then pull out a weapon then the person might die. I was at work when that specific encounter happened, at least the latter portion, so I can’t really attest to all of the reasons they had. I know I wanted to RP, but… C’est la vie.

I said in the beginning I would not speak about the rebels and I’m going to stay that way. I don’t want my observations being taken and used as a way for certain people to complain again. The only thing I can say is that I agree with portions of every side and Walldo and I have chatted about it. There is no easy way to make this work, and some of the rebels have tried their best to get out there and do stuff.

So many people have made the comment, “But if the rebels don’t win then what?” Then the era ends. Next era the Empire will be more powerful and something even more evil can come out of the wood work or some other group can appear. I know this isn’t a popular opinion but let’s face it. We aren’t acting out the movies here. The bad guys win sometimes. If you have an unstoppable force to fight against you hide in the shadows and don’t tell that force you are there until you’re ready to cut its head off. You don’t announce to the world that you’re here to fight when you haven’t got a chance in hell, because I promise you, if the bad guys are doing their job they are going to do their best to demoralize, crush and otherwise make life hell for you so that you can never oppose them. Having said that, I still think some of the “good guys” have done a great job, and I’m looking forward to more from them.

I agree, and sadly I don’t know which ones specifically are responsible, but a few of the other side really deserve something, they’ve done an outstanding job of frusterating me immensely.

The jerk in me would also like to add, just let them lose once, and I’ll bet you they fight with everything they’ve got next time.

Just saying “the Empire wins” by default, letting the rebels fall to pieces, and starting era 3 with nothing changing does not make for a good mud.

why do the rebels have to win? yeah i get the whole ‘need to move on’ thing, but some good rp can be had still, can’t it? Without having to force one side or the other to win/lose?

What happens if the rebels don’t win?

That’s the question no one seems to really be able to answer and that is my point! How does era 2 end? What is era 3 like? What clans do we have? What is the major conflict if the rebels just fold up and die?

I could give you a list of alternatives. Before hand I would like to say that forcing it like last timeline…well it leads to bad places. ANYHOW! Alternatives, suggestions and the like:

Why should we wait for the Rebels to beat the Empire? Lure in a third major clan now. Mando’s, Vong, Chiss, Sri’Ruuk, Yevethans, hell who really cares, build an RP reasoning up for them to come in and jump everyone, and make it one big intergalactic threesome which ends with everyone being all busted up and a New Republic being able to be formed out of the devastated galaxy. Why wait until era 3 for a major invasion when we can RP its aftermath instead for era 3.

An alternative to this is said powerhouse group shows up and joins the Rebellion due to a hatred of the Sith or Empire or…sharp angles or something. Far too close to immtervention though honestly to avoid screams.

Ask a few key Imperial players to break off and take pieces of the Empire with them, fracturing it into multiple smaller clans and in the chaos…THE REBELS STRI…hrm. Ok scratch that one honestly.

Brain Slugs. Nuff said.

Droid Uprising. Anyone ever notice the galaxy more or less enslaves these noble and clearly sentient beings? (Well most of them are sentient anyways.)

Honestly I kinda think the first one would go a long ways towards making it interesting even though one side refuses to claim their role. Last timeline was a mistake, a terrible and stupid mistake. Something has to be DIFFERENT this time or its just going to repeat.

No one says that you have to say “The Empire wins” by default. Honestly, I would love to play a rebel right now if my only goal was to “win”. They have the best chance to do stuff. A place to hide and no chance of getting attacked there? Check. The ability to continuously strike worlds with a reduced chance of being caught and killed(Being a ‘secret’ clan and all)? Check. The advantages of being a secret clan with its members being hidden, having hidden worlds AND being a major clan(So you can build fleets, cap planets, ect)? Check.

Seriously. If your goal is to be able to straight up fight the Empire head on then you’re doing this wrong. The Rebellion didn’t do that. It found weak points in the Empire’s armor and struck there. Did it always work? No. They lost a lot of good people. They sure as hell tried though. They’ve got academy join, hidden worlds where they can train people. I wish I could train my guys without having to worry about someone killing or capturing them.

I see so many people saying, “Woe is me” and shit and all I can think of is that if I were in your position I’d be loving it.

And who will play the Mandalorians or Vong or Chiss or Yevethans or whatever? The same people who are rebels now? Why aren’t the people who would play those clans go be a rebel now?

Who am I to tell key Imperial players to abandon their roleplay or whatever? Why don’t they just do that instead of complaining on the forums and osay and wherever else about things?

If I asked you to give up your characters or change your roleplay to tear up the Empire, would you? If the answer is yes, why should I have to ask you in the firs tplace?

You get what I’m saying?

Interesting to note that in canon the rebellion didn’t really pick up steam until Imperials started defecting!

I’m not saying that the rebels have to fold up and die… but sometimes the Empire is strong and the only way the rebels might win is by imm interference. Which i’m not saying has or hasn’t happened this timeline becuase i’m not involved. But, why not keep the EMpire (if that’s the way the RP is going), start a new era with a new major clan that comes up with new apped characters that come up to try to take out the Empire. Mandalorians? Some other kind of “Empire” who’s like “Hey whoa you can’t take us over like that.” IDK.

If the Empire wins: Shadow Imperium-esque stuff. No one wants that.

No… that isn’t what happened. The Empire didn’t win, and they shrunk into a small clan that was brought back up when all those little clans were put in. Sometimes the Empire does a good job at what it’s doing. Keeps people in check, protects planets, whatever. Not everyone feels the need to rebel. And that’s part of roleplay, not part of “stagnation” or something or other. But, that being said, what I meant was if the Empire stays big, keep it big, and bring something else in. Hell, let it be immortals that show the Empire how it’s done (for an EOT). I don’t know. But if you want it to change, and the rebels aren’t doing it, what else is supposed to be done? I don’t want to have to bring up last timeline, where it was like… “well let’s force the biggest engi clan to rebel because well we need someone to”, but that really sucked. Not everyone in the canon galaxy rebelled. Not everyone was political. I don’t want this to get into an argument of “well you’re always neutral”, that isn’t what I’m saying. What I’m saying is, we’ve tried that. We’ve tried forcing other clans to rebel. We’ve tried having rebel clans that actually have a reason to rebel to begin with. We’ve tried just starting over into era 3 with small clans and a small empire clan. So what do we try this time if it isn’t working?

The Empire was defeated at the era 2 EoE. The Imperium rose to power because the rebels were horrible, and that win was given, not earned. We stole everything the rebels had flying, and the Rebellion collapsed on itself.