Legends of the Jedi Forums General Chat Something that must be said.
This topic has 88 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 9 months ago by Oteri.
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    • Ocerion Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 1:19 pm #19294

      Really hope people can read this and see constructive critisism where it is, rather than leap into flame wars.

      Look, the last timeline and this one has shared one problem, I can’t say much about this timeline’s specific issues but since last timeline had the exact same ones, I can speak of those and people can, I really hope, understand my ACTUAL problem. (For once.)

      I am honestly sick and tired of people who sit around on hidden worlds for months on end talking of a hopeless situation, never doing anything, and getting handouts so their clan wins. It isn’t right, and its all around bad for the mud. Look, I’m not saying people should rush out and charge, I’m definately not saying to take up more comlink action, and I’m definately not saying things would be easy, but even if your clan is outmanned, outgunned, and surrounded, you can do -SOMETHING- other than talk about how much your doing. Now, there are always a few people who do get out and do something. And man, I’d like to hug you guys even when its me your killing, Thank you for your effort, you know who you are. But there are a lot of people, often leaders, who will look at the situation, say its hopeless, and order everyone to do nothing and do nothing themselves, then complain to the Imms till they get free things. Ok, its tough. Yes. But man, I’d be the number one person begging the imms to give the other side free stuff if these other sides were making an effort and losing, but instead what we have, is people doing -NOTHING- and getting rewarded. How can such a miscarriage of justice exist? What ever happened to “Nothing ventured, nothing gained” ? Are people really so terrified of spending a bit of extra time building a couple ships that they won’t risk unmanned ships through battlegroups? Are people so afraid of dying that they can’t come out and launch sneak attacks in quiet areas where few of the enemy happen to be? Whatever happened to hit and run tactics? (Again there are a few who do these things.) I mean last timeline’s era 2 was the greatest example of all time as to why this should NEVER happen. If the Rebels hadn’t been GIVEN the era 2 win, and instead forced to EARN it, or die, there never would have been a Shadow Imperium, and a whole “Era 2 twice” situation. It should be a PERFECT lesson to people to man the hell up, don’t charge a whole clan, don’t send 4 ships to fight everything the other side has, but use the MANY other tactics in existance. Come on people. Earn something…really.

    • Zakattack Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 1:51 pm #19296

      I agree, and I would like to note what people (forgot who you were) said about how giving the rebels a cloning facility, so they weren’t too afraid to takes risks. Yes, I think there should still be a chance for failure in said clones, but I think it would give them the sense of security to start taking calculated risks. And honestly, if you die, just make a new character who rp’s his way into the rebellion again.

    • Walldo Keymaster
      June 23, 2012 at 1:57 pm #19297

      I understand why you insist on constantly bringing this up but I have to ask, what are you doing about it? At what point are you willing to stop sitting on such a lop-sided team and go help the underdog?

    • Alevious Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 1:59 pm #19298

      As someone who played on the side of the rebels/jedi last timeline and on the side of the Empire/sith this timeline, I agree fully. Last timeline all I heard from the leaders was ‘wait, don’t do anything yet’ and the such (I didn’t really listen =P). This timeline, it’s kind of worse. At least when I was on the side of the rebels I could choose to ignore the leadership and still run off killing stray Imperial soldiers as Sis’Lekt, helping fight in naval battles as Ashuin my slicer, or just capping that one planet with my Pau’an before he died. I could still actually do -something-. But now, as an Imperial what I can and can’t do is completely reliant on the rebellion deciding to do something or not. It’s rather frustrating and I kind of feel like joining them instead so that I can actually have a bit of fun instead of trying to find ways to entertain myself that just end up with people bitching and complaining.

    • Ocerion Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 2:12 pm #19299

      Honestly Walldo. Thats a question I can’t respond to on these forums. Though if you were to ask me via immchat someday I’d happily explain.

      And Alevious, people like you? Deserve a damn cookiee or three for giving an effort. Even an effort that ends in a loss is at least better than anything the rest of them put up. I will NEVER claim that none of “The other side” does anything. Even now there are a few people that I just wish could get some kind of bigass reward for actually getting out and DOING something, giving an effort that stretches beyond simply dredging up things that characters who are long dead and entirely irrelevent were involved in.

    • Zeromus Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 2:24 pm #19300

      I could join the Rebels, but what incentive do I have at this point? Some of us are pretty damn tired of carrying a mass of conflict-shy players to victory. It was nearly impossible to get anyone to do anything with the near infinite ships we had with the Phoenix Alliance/Jedi Order last timeline, I’m not doing that shit again. Some people who aren’t the same 10 players need to sack up and do something, otherwise the players who -are- willing to take risks and -are- willing to get something done WILL get burnt out like I have.

      It was the same nonsense with the Rebel Alliance after the Reborn merger last timeline. When Karn wasn’t on, nobody was interested in doing anything at all.

      EDIT: I’m a little amused by the people that said giving the Rebels cloning would make them more likely to take risks. I’ve seen Rebels handed cortosis, infinite MC80s and god knows what else and still didn’t do anything until they waited until Ocerion got bored and Sarac was the only fleet admiral they had to contend with.

    • Ocerion Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 3:10 pm #19303

      Honestly, I think Zeromus just put it into words better than I ever could. The only thing that could be added is that the whole situation is compounded by the fact that the Imm staff appears to either completely misunderstand the problem, or deny its existance. (Not an insult Immies.)

    • Altrez Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 3:52 pm #19304

      I’m going to agree with inaction on the rebels part, but I’m also going to argue that the bad guys this era don’t know what to do with the game if it doesn’t involve PKing somebody.

      The rebels need to take more risks, and the imperials need to risk telling more stories.
      If we have just one or just the other it won’t bring balance to the MUD.

    • Zeromus Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 3:54 pm #19305

      In my opinion, the bad guys are doing exactly what they should. If people are mad about it, then they need to fight back.

    • Altrez Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 4:02 pm #19306

      You can’t combat bad roleplay and poor storytelling skills.

      See what I mean about thinking only in PK terms?

    • Bai Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 4:04 pm #19307

      if you spell definitely with an a, you’re definitely an a-hole
      -the oatmeal

    • Zeromus Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 4:11 pm #19309

      PK is roleplay. A bad roleplayer is somebody inconsistent, the Empire is purely consistent with what they do and what they’ve done. If your character runs afoul of the Empire, their roleplay is that you’ll be executed for whatever you’ve done. There’s no such thing as a distinction between “PK terms” and “roleplay terms” and if you think that there is on a MUD that is defined by one of the owners as a roleplaying game with PK driven conflict, you should probably find a different game to play (possibly a MUSH, if you can’t handle that LOTJ is a competitive game that includes roleplay.)

    • Coya Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 4:43 pm #19310

      I’ve pretty much stopped speaking as to what the Rebels should or shouldn’t do. No matter what I say I know certain people will bash me, so I’ll speak to the Empire. Do a lot of people get executed when they run afoul of the Empire? Yes. They do. There are also lots of people who have run afoul of us and shown their willingness to RP and have a continued dialog without acting like a complete idiot and many of them have lived. If you find yourself in a cell and your instinct is to Jack Bauer your way out you are probably going to be disappointed with the end result. Now, have we gone and killed people who absolutely cooperate? Sure. I know there are a few people I see on comms pretty much daily that can speak to the fact that I probably should have killed them, but I didn’t and I know others that I wish I had not killed… But I did.

      Contrary to what some people believe, the Empire are the bad guys. We’re jerks. Now, if you happen to get captured by the Empire and you don’t get RP then please let the IMMs know and I hope they’ll let me know. Nothing pisses me off more than knowing someone got no RP. Even more so, it pisses me off when someone forces us to PK them instead of letting RP happen. I’m not going to name any names, but if we capture you and the first thing you do is try to run off and immediately quit or sit there acting like you’re some sort of super hero that can’t be interrogated? Well, we’re not going to sit there and hold your hand. If you are willing to RP and aren’t going to act like a total jerk that RP can last as long as you’re willing. In the end I want to RP with people. If they give me that chance then I am going to run with it and RP all day.

      I’ve made a great effort to ensure that RP continues to happen from the Empire, stuff that will include people on the outside of my clan and all. I know a lot of my guys continuously do the same sort of stuff and you know what? They’re awesome. Some of the Rebels out there? Great guys and girls. Going out, doing their thing. Fighting the good fight.

      My character is going to die eventually. When it happens I’m going to miss him, but if it happens in a good way then I’ll be alright with that. Do I want him to die? Absolutely not, but I know that death is just as much a part of this game as anything else. It doesn’t matter who you are. Rebel. Imperial. Some random hunter or freelance guy or girl. Don’t hide behind the prospect that you might die and thus stunt your role. Go out there and kick ass and take names. If you die? Hell, you died doing what your character believed in. If you live? Well, you succeeded. Great job.

    • Ocerion Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 4:55 pm #19312

      This isn’t a problem in the minds of two or three people. Like it or not.

      At the rate things are going, the lack of effort is going to create a duplicate timeline to last one, when the rebellion was so awful that even after the Imms forced a win on them, they still could not manage to pull together and get a New Republic going. Is this something people want? Another repeat of last timeline? Because everyone seems pretty damn determined to make it so, and I was under the impression that it was pretty well hated.

    • Altrez Participant
      June 23, 2012 at 5:33 pm #19313

      Uhhh, I didn’t say anything about prisoner RP. I said that the bad guys were too PK minded to tell a good story. With me? Alright, let’s address that, while keeping in mind that I agree about the rebels fighting more.

      I would also call bullshit that roleplay is a side dish to LOTJ. Let’s look at a few things we have here:
      (read in redlettermedia list voice)
      – restricted player killing
      – player elected RPC almost specifically designed for unfair PK instances
      – fully developed emote system
      – enforced roleplay
      – required player history/descriptions
      – think logs

      Now that we’ve established that RP is a big part of this game, let’s move on to storytelling. What do I mean when I say that they need to tell more stories? Do I mean:

      A) Nobody RP’s with us in jail waaah
      B) They kill everyone that breaks the law waaah
      C) They have their heads so geared towards player killing mechanics that they don’t take the time to think about STORY mechanics and the roleplay that is as much a part of LOTJ as PK is.
      D) All of the above

      If you answered C, you’re correct! What I believe is that villains drive the plot, and create the conflict, then the heroes address said conflict by swooping in to the rescue!

      Does this mean that the villains should kill everyone and everything in sight to prove that they’re evil? No!
      Does this mean they should try new and innovative ways to be evil with the whole big galaxy that they own and can thus abuse to draw the rebels out? Yes!
      Am I saying that the villains are 100% the problem and that the rebels are not to blame? No!
      Am I saying that it’s wrong to kill rebel prisoners? No!

      Now go back and read my first post.

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