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November 28, 2009 at 4:15 pm #12690
No no. There are some broken points in the system, and there are a lot of points in the system that are abused because it is broken, or became broken because it was abused. These reasons have caused to Imms to step in to stop, and have caused the Imms to step in before an event COULD happen in the future. There is good and bad in this. I see the reasons why, though I believe that they can be a bit strict at times, especially when it was one or a few asshats who fucked it for the rest of us. One example would be multi-clanning. Thank you asshats who messed that up for the rest of us.
Also, we may each be a "hero" in the universe, but I always like to image that it’s not JUST me building a ship, that I have workers or hirelings around that assist. So working on a larger ship, i just image more people or more machinery around me that I use to help. I would like to see fighter/transport sized vessel blueprints for public sale.
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January 25, 2010 at 6:47 am #13138
Back in the day that buildship was fairly new and science wasn’t even conceived yet. There were ‘public’ blueprints. I miss those. Engineering companies that went under earlier in the timeline that ‘had’ blueprints that were made public domain. I find it entirely irritating that with 40-50 characters on, I ask for someone to sell me a ship and they’re too fricking busy bitching about something over Commnet 0 to respond or ignore me entirely.
There are 3 or 4 active engineering clans, what do you have to do to get one person in one to pay enough attention to sell a ship to you?
Also, while the multiclan thing is up. I understand that there are problems with people doing spy activity without apps, but there are limits to how much control the staff and rules should have over players. Seriously, I’m not going to put both of my characters in the same ‘clan’ just because you can’t control certain players from leaking information from seperate or opposing clans. I’d make my own clan but I’d have to actually ask an admin/wiz to help for once.
Also, I think that it’s entirely too hard for some classes to make money. I have a pilot that can fight decently well but when the ship I want is 2 million credits and I can get 1k per bounty, that’s 2,000 mobs to kill doing nothing and not RPing.
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January 25, 2010 at 1:18 pm #13140"Helix":ge1o0pa2 wrote:Also, while the multiclan thing is up. I understand that there are problems with people doing spy activity without apps, but there are limits to how much control the staff and rules should have over players. Seriously, I’m not going to put both of my characters in the same ‘clan’ just because you can’t control certain players from leaking information from seperate or opposing clans. I’d make my own clan but I’d have to actually ask an admin/wiz to help for once.
[/quote:ge1o0pa2]
<rj>
Do you even think about what you’re typing before you hit "submit," or do you just blather on like a moron with no sense of your own idiocy?
You can "not put your characters in the same ‘clan.’" Really, go right ahead–that’s one moron banned from the mud that we don’t really need.The rules are set up the way they are for many reasons:
A) "No multiclanning" is simple and unambiguous; it’s impossible to rationalize away a violation of it. "Some multiclanning," on the other hand,
is about as ambiguous as it comes: what if the clans are allied? What if they’re neutral to each other, but not at war?
"Some multiclanning" is asking for spyapp violations, as much as you might attest otherwise (true, hardened criminals don’t admit their crimes). Your fault in logic is not in your assumptions (which are mostly true–some people [i:ge1o0pa2]would[/i:ge1o0pa2] multiclan without breaking spyapp); it’s in your actual logic: you’re thinking about people getting [i:ge1o0pa2]caught[/i:ge1o0pa2] breaking spyapp with multiclanning, not people actually [i:ge1o0pa2]breaking[/i:ge1o0pa2] spyapp. Remember, kids: only idiots get caught (and logic dictates that the idiots do far less damage even were they not caught).P.S. Please cut out the "holier than thou" bullshit; you don’t have a unique history of abiding by spyapp–because no one does. It’s [for the most part] universally accepted; it’s the people that [i:ge1o0pa2]break[/i:ge1o0pa2] spyapp that are unique. The spyapp rules are like the nuclear peace: sure, you can argue that not having spyapp rules in place–that not having a tacit bargain against nuclear weapon use–might be more accurate, might help you… but there’s a reason they exist; there’s a reason we haven’t seen nuclear weapons since World War II.
P.P.S. Help formclan, newb. You don’t [i:ge1o0pa2]need[/i:ge1o0pa2] an imm to do jack shit.
</rj>
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January 25, 2010 at 2:13 pm #13141
I’ve played LotJ for 7 years, I don’t think that I’m going to do something that stupid just to get banned. I’m just arguing that people can’t really have multiple characters with different thoughts, aspirations, alliances, etc ‘without’ being in other clans or without being unclanned. All the ‘no multiclanning’ rule really does is say that you can’t enjoy more than one character at a time. As I said before, we shouldn’t be punished because a few stupid people broke the no info from one character to the other or such rule. What’s that called? Oh yes, Metagaming, which is also against the rules. Though if you banned everyone that metagamed we’d only have 10 players. And even with ‘formclan’ you will need help from an imm in the long run if you plan to have a base of operations.
PS. RJ stop being such a jerk and be nice for once. I’m not calling anyone here names I don’t think you have the right to do it either.
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January 25, 2010 at 3:50 pm #13142"Helix":1aempm6c wrote:I’ve played LotJ for 7 years, I don’t think that I’m going to do something that stupid just to get banned. I’m just arguing that people can’t really have multiple characters with different thoughts, aspirations, alliances, etc ‘without’ being in other clans or without being unclanned. All the ‘no multiclanning’ rule really does is say that you can’t enjoy more than one character at a time. As I said before, we shouldn’t be punished because a few stupid people broke the no info from one character to the other or such rule. What’s that called? Oh yes, Metagaming, which is also against the rules. Though if you banned everyone that metagamed we’d only have 10 players. And even with ‘formclan’ you will need help from an imm in the long run if you plan to have a base of operations.[/quote:1aempm6c]
Hint: inability does not imply impossibility. Just because you magically can’t have two characters in a single clan that are dissimilar, or even do it when one of those characters is unclanned–a freelance engineer, a bounty hunter, or any other character archetype that doesn’t require clan affiliation (really, the only one that /does/ is some sort of governmental worker or an army/navy puke)–[b:1aempm6c]does not[/b:1aempm6c] mean that it can’t be done. I know people that have probably a dozen characters, none of them alike in history, personality, or any other identifying features (other than player-specific features, e.g. writing style); I personally have two, neither unclanned, and the characters are absolutely nothing alike.
tl;dr = Once again, you’re wrong: the multiclanning rule doesn’t prohibit the enjoyment of more than one character in any way, shape, or form (for me, and most other players, the only limiting factor there is simple time: you can’t be [i:1aempm6c]on[/i:1aempm6c] more than one character at once, which is multiplaying, not multiclanning). What the multiclanning rule does say, however, is that it’s [i:1aempm6c]not[/i:1aempm6c] ok to use information that your character didn’t find out ICly–just like the rules against AIM cliques, and against chatting about IC matters on OOC, and all of the other such rules.
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January 25, 2010 at 4:29 pm #13143"Helix":373wp7mv wrote:I find it entirely irritating that with 40-50 characters on, I ask for someone to sell me a ship and they’re too fricking busy bitching about something over Commnet 0 to respond or ignore me entirely.
There are 3 or 4 active engineering clans, what do you have to do to get one person in one to pay enough attention to sell a ship to you?[/quote:373wp7mv]
In general, there are about 25-30 players on at any given time…And there are only 2 engineering/ship building companies currently. You don’t like how quickly engineering companies come begging to make a shitty profit by selling you a ship? Go make your own company or join one of the two and do it yourself.
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January 25, 2010 at 7:13 pm #13146
RJ if you don’t stop being a dick in every single post you make I’m gonna ban you. Also, here is an internet tip: If your "TL;DR" is 2/3 the length of your regular post, don’t bother.
I think party of the reason engineering firms are taking so long right now is they JUST got new blueprints. They didn’t have anything to sell beforehand, so they are GOING to be a little backlogged. They are busy building ships as fast as they can, and it might take a little while before things level out.
RE: Shitty Profit. They need to suck it up. That is the point of their clan: to build ships.
As for multiclanning, it isn’t even just a spyapp issue. It’s just bad game mechanics to let people go around being in all the clans they want.
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January 25, 2010 at 7:19 pm #13147"Walldo":2vajlgb5 wrote:RJ if you don’t stop being a dick in every single post you make I’m gonna ban you. Also, here is an internet tip: If your "TL;DR" is 2/3 the length of your regular post, don’t bother.
I think party of the reason engineering firms are taking so long right now is they JUST got new blueprints. They didn’t have anything to sell beforehand, so they are GOING to be a little backlogged. They are busy building ships as fast as they can, and it might take a little while before things level out.
RE: Shitty Profit. They need to suck it up. That is the point of their clan: to build ships.
As for multiclanning, it isn’t even just a spyapp issue. It’s just bad game mechanics to let people go around being in all the clans they want.[/quote:2vajlgb5]
Walldo, here is a math "tip": 3/7 != 2/3
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January 25, 2010 at 8:39 pm #13148"Walldo":dlfxk5bx wrote:RE: Shitty Profit. They need to suck it up. That is the point of their clan: to build ships.[/quote:dlfxk5bx]
No, you’re absolutely wrong. The point of their clan is not just to build ships, its to build ships at a profit. If the profit margin on a ship is set so low, production grinds to a hault because people realize they can run cargo or camp packages for a better profit. Its funny how every single era, it gets to the point that "engineering" companies all but shut down because nobody wants to spend 3 hours on something that they make about 200k profit on…all the while they could have made a couple of million running cargo.
Now, if by "suck it up" you mean..start raising ship prices to a more realistic level…yeah I can see that happening. The key will be to get through the backlash of whining players who think they should be able to buy a ship at a lower price than a set of armor or a repeater.
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January 25, 2010 at 9:38 pm #13149"xpuma20x":1l6m0x7w wrote:"Walldo":1l6m0x7w wrote:RE: Shitty Profit. They need to suck it up. That is the point of their clan: to build ships.[/quote:1l6m0x7w]
No, you’re absolutely wrong. The point of their clan is not just to build ships, its to build ships at a profit. If the profit margin on a ship is set so low, production grinds to a hault because people realize they can run cargo or camp packages for a better profit. Its funny how every single era, it gets to the point that "engineering" companies all but shut down because nobody wants to spend 3 hours on something that they make about 200k profit on…all the while they could have made a couple of million running cargo.
Now, if by "suck it up" you mean..start raising ship prices to a more realistic level…yeah I can see that happening. The key will be to get through the backlash of whining players who think they should be able to buy a ship at a lower price than a set of armor or a repeater.[/quote:1l6m0x7w]
Totally Agree, A Ship should cost more then a set of armor, to be honest it should cost more then a house, or anything like that. Sorry yall I was on the forum and for some reason this was at the top of brainstormatorium
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January 25, 2010 at 9:45 pm #13150
Honestly the fact that ships cost so little is the fault of the engineering companies in the first place.
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January 26, 2010 at 3:55 pm #13159"Skiia":3hb1zqrm wrote:Honestly the fact that ships cost so little is the fault of the engineering companies in the first place.[/quote:3hb1zqrm]
That’s not the fault of the engineering companies as much as it is the fault of the players. A new ship came out recently from an engineering clan and immediately people started bitching about how it was too expensive and how they’d never purchase from that engineering company again. The players have an expectation on how much ships cost, if you change that, people won’t buy from you. So unless you can work that out, ships are going to remain ‘cheap’
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January 26, 2010 at 5:04 pm #13161
If that’s the case, it needs to be done from the beginning of a timeline/era, so that the mindset reflects that. I guess it’s a bit too late now.
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