Legends of the Jedi Forums The Brainstormtorium What we should be able to purchase with points
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    • Drel Member
      November 3, 2010 at 9:47 pm #15861
      "Anna":2kudxz6v wrote:
      "xpuma20x":2kudxz6v wrote:
      Here’s an idea that might not be supportable or even supported by the players/staff, but I figured I’d toss it out there. There are always times when people really seem to want to play a specific race, but there’s always heated debates on if that race is "good enough" to be added in or whatever reasons there are. However, this doesn’t end the person’s desire to play that race. To me, it seems that a lot of these people want to play the race itself and could overall care less what the stats are. What if we allowed players to take the generic "human" race, but then they pay X amount of account points to have themselves altered to a race not in game?

      Example: I really want to play a Selkath, I create using the standard human mold and once in game, I get docked X points (We’d have to decide how much this is worth) and an IMM sets me to "Selkath" and thats what I look like when people look at me or diagnose me.[/quote:2kudxz6v]

      I love the idea, but I have no idea if it’s feasible or not code-wise. We’d have to wait for a post from one of the coders.[/quote:2kudxz6v]
      A real coder will have to chime in on this, but even at the worst case I can imagine, it’s possible. (That would "just" involve a total reworking of the way races are stored.)

      xpuma, did you mean that the "Selkath" race would BE Human in everything but name (racial abilities, level/stat modifiers, etc.), or would those be custom, as well?

      Hint: a custom race name is way more feasible than a full custom race, if LotJ stores races the same way SWR does.

    • Corey Participant
      November 3, 2010 at 10:47 pm #15864

      just custom race name….custom stats and all that would be more difficult than need be

    • Kora Participant
      November 4, 2010 at 1:16 am #15871
      "Drel":31g0ke7b wrote:
      "Anna":31g0ke7b wrote:
      What if, when your character is totally maxed out. Everything is leveled, then you get a bonus buy. There would be a pre-set list of things that you could buy for your character: For 1,000 points (or whatever amount) you could get a predetermined boost in an category that your character is a little weak on. Sometimes, that’s all you need to get those few skills that you want. For 2,000 points, you could get an extra 10 force levels, if your character happens to be a forcer. ALL character would be able to choose one option, and only one option, and this process would replace applications for extra levels.[/quote:31g0ke7b]
      I’d just say maxed in their main class and any relevant subclasses (leadership for combat, science for engineering, piloting for smuggling, etc.), because, really, who’s going to go through the trouble of maxing all 20 levels of BH they get?

      Or maybe just have the class they want to increase be maxed?[/quote:31g0ke7b]
      Extra levels should be hard to get. Requiring you to max out [i:31g0ke7b]everything[/i:31g0ke7b] seems like an excellent way to make those extra levels appropriately rare.

    • Kora Participant
      November 4, 2010 at 1:22 am #15872
      "xpuma20x":quw70ji6 wrote:
      Example: I really want to play a Selkath, I create using the standard human mold and once in game, I get docked X points (We’d have to decide how much this is worth) and an IMM sets me to "Selkath" and thats what I look like when people look at me or diagnose me.[/quote:quw70ji6]
      I really like this idea, but I’d be in support of being able to use something other than just a human as a template. Of course, buying a better level set would require more points. If I wanted to have the same levels and stats as a Wookiee, I’d have to pay for a Wookiee in addition to whatever the cost is for getting that custom race name. And, of course, the imms would have to approve the choice. We couldn’t have people running around with Wookiee stats and looking like a Pantoran or something else slender and delicate.

      From the way that imms can change RPC members to be absolutely any race (like a Bulbasaur, for instance) I imagine this would be doable.

      I love the idea, though. There are quite a few races that aren’t in game that I really want to play, but I’m generally pessimistic about apps so I don’t send one in.

      [b:quw70ji6]Side note:[/b:quw70ji6] Obviously anything more elaborate than that would still have to be applied for. You couldn’t play a Selkath properly without aqua_breath.

    • DCLXVI Member
      November 4, 2010 at 5:08 am #15880
      "DCLXVI":1bn4tqrx wrote:
      Alright. I was thinking about how diverse species can be and being able to over come generally ‘negative’ aspects of there cultures. For instance, you come along someone from a species that you automatically assume they’ll act a certain way and be a certain profession. A Duros would be a great pilot. A Corellian is a cunning smuggler. A Bothan is a slick operative. But not everyone follows the ‘norm’. Once in a while you come across someone from a species that goes against the grain so to speak. A Duros becoming a brilliant General on the field of battle. A Corellian becoming a bright, and outstanding engineer. A Bothan becoming a feared bounty hunter. So why not on LOTJ?

      Here is what I propose. Perhaps, make it worth so many points, I don’t know maybe 10,000 (that can be thought up later). But here’s the game plan, you pick a race, and you get to customize it a bit. Maybe allowed to choose which class you get 150 and everything else will fall into place. So for instance, to create the great Duros General you would place it into combat. To get the Corellian engineer, you’d put it into engineering. The Bothan bounty hunter, into bounty hunting.

      I don’t know how feesible this would be and what it would take to achieve it, but I just though maybe being able to make a species out of the general norm would be pretty cool once in a while. And having a high point threshold of 10,000 (the old level you needed to buy a forcer) you could have some really unique individuals and characters make there way into LOTJ.[/quote:1bn4tqrx]

      From my post I found a long while back. Of course looking back, 10K is a bit much for this kind of character, maybe 3K or so.

      Also, here is the link to the whole thing for those interested:
      [url:1bn4tqrx]http://www.legendsofthejedi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=884&p=9132#p9132[/url:1bn4tqrx]

    • Drel Member
      November 4, 2010 at 1:37 pm #15891
      "Kora":3htcub2m wrote:
      "xpuma20x":3htcub2m wrote:
      Example: I really want to play a Selkath, I create using the standard human mold and once in game, I get docked X points (We’d have to decide how much this is worth) and an IMM sets me to "Selkath" and thats what I look like when people look at me or diagnose me.[/quote:3htcub2m]
      I really like this idea, but I’d be in support of being able to use something other than just a human as a template. Of course, buying a better level set would require more points. If I wanted to have the same levels and stats as a Wookiee, I’d have to pay for a Wookiee in addition to whatever the cost is for getting that custom race name. And, of course, the imms would have to approve the choice. We couldn’t have people running around with Wookiee stats and looking like a Pantoran or something else slender and delicate.

      From the way that imms can change RPC members to be absolutely any race (like a Bulbasaur, for instance) I imagine this would be doable.

      I love the idea, though. There are quite a few races that aren’t in game that I really want to play, but I’m generally pessimistic about apps so I don’t send one in.

      [b:3htcub2m]Side note:[/b:3htcub2m] Obviously anything more elaborate than that would still have to be applied for. You couldn’t play a Selkath properly without aqua_breath.[/quote:3htcub2m]
      Doable and feasible are different. The problem here isn’t coding the functionality to be able to be bought with points (that, I’d guess, is straight-forward). It’s dealing with the functionality once 9238492384 people use it. In the worst case storage scenario (that is, each custom race is added to the array of races), the easiest implementation gets really bloated, really quickly. The minor bloat of a few custom races for the RPC is one thing; the bloat from dozens and dozens of custom-race characters is something else entirely.

      Though, that’s all assuming LotJ’s already been changed to store races in a dynamic array (SWR stores them in a static array, which means you can’t change the number of races without… a copyover, at best). And it’s also assuming my guess on how they got an RPC to bulbosaur is correct.

      An easier solution (and this may be how they got an RPC to Bulbosaur; in that case, custom races COULD be put in basically just with the code to let them be buyable) would be to have characters have a "race_name" entry in addition to their "race" entry. By default, race_name would be their race’s name, but it could be changed independently.

      Legal Notice: I’m not an LotJ coder. I’m only basing this off of what I know with SWR (which isn’t much, anyways), so a real coder will have to chime in for a "real" answer.

    • Rojan QDel Member
      November 4, 2010 at 6:08 pm #15898

      We have a completely different race system from stock SWR, it is all OLC..so it is feasible though not necessarily a good idea.

    • Muddledde Member
      November 4, 2010 at 8:49 pm #15907

      Was my post about creating and/or rearranging your our species missed?

    • Drel Member
      November 6, 2010 at 7:05 am #15928
      "Muddledde":29nlbhtt wrote:
      Was my post about creating and/or rearranging your our species missed?[/quote:29nlbhtt]
      I’ve been the one that dregs the random posts into discussion, and I didn’t care for it, so it wasn’t so much missed as unintentionally ignored. It’s nothing against you; I’m against the custom races idea, too. If you want something custom, APPLY FOR IT. The most I’d like to see "built in," so to say, would be the system that lets you increase a class max if you’re fully leveled (or whatever other bar is set).

      And, to be brutally honest, I like your idea far, far less than simple custom races. Because it could let, for example, a Jawa Bounty Hunter work. Sure, they would suck at everything else, but they’ve got the massive non-combat level bonuses to support it. And there is no way I’m in favor of a Jawa Bounty Hunter being able to do anything other than die in style (or maybe RP as a BHer but get kills via blackjack + ninja PK ability), so there’s no way I could be in favor of a system that would let that work. Hence, app-only for the "extreme" differences, and have a built-in system for the less extreme ones–like a Mandalorian engineer that can actually 150 engineering.

    • Anna Member
      November 6, 2010 at 7:57 am #15931
      "Drel":1iaf272a wrote:
      "Muddledde":1iaf272a wrote:
      Was my post about creating and/or rearranging your our species missed?[/quote:1iaf272a]
      I’ve been the one that dregs the random posts into discussion, and I didn’t care for it, so it wasn’t so much missed as unintentionally ignored. It’s nothing against you; I’m against the custom races idea, too. If you want something custom, APPLY FOR IT. The most I’d like to see "built in," so to say, would be the system that lets you increase a class max if you’re fully leveled (or whatever other bar is set).

      And, to be brutally honest, I like your idea far, far less than simple custom races. Because it could let, for example, a Jawa Bounty Hunter work. Sure, they would suck at everything else, but they’ve got the massive non-combat level bonuses to support it. And there is no way I’m in favor of a Jawa Bounty Hunter being able to do anything other than die in style (or maybe RP as a BHer but get kills via blackjack + ninja PK ability), so there’s no way I could be in favor of a system that would let that work. Hence, app-only for the "extreme" differences, and have a built-in system for the less extreme ones–like a Mandalorian engineer that can actually 150 engineering.[/quote:1iaf272a]

      I am against your idea, Muddledde, for the same reasons that Drel is. You really have to select between the race you want to play, and the main that you want to play. If they don’t mesh up, then it’s really just unfortunate. We can’t logically explain the Jawa BHer, or the Whiphid Scientist, or the Gamorrean Senator. I would like to bill the game as an RP mud, and we can’t attract Star Wars RPers if, say (random example) the Emperor is a Whiphid who is magically smart enough to have taken over the galaxy.

      Drel, we’re getting out of the practice of considering applications for every little thing. We simply spend too many man hours on them. The system to allow for a little boost in one field only would be a replacement for level increase apps.

      I think it would wise for everyone to think of the things that they’ve been applying for, and try to think up a way to make it something that they can buy instead. This will mean an end to the totally obscure applications, naturally. -but then again, it’s not like we’ve had a Whiphid Emperor in the last 9 years.

    • Muddledde Member
      November 6, 2010 at 4:47 pm #15943

      I can understand what you guys are saying in a certain degree. Since this is a discussion, I will post another side:

      Every species able to be picked in this game, is the ‘norm’ for that species. This option allows the ‘extremes’ to be chosen. For a price of course. The player using their points to purchase this shows that they have had experience playing the MUD as well. So it’s not just a random newbie rolling a Sluissi BH.

      Also, this is an RP MUD, if you let a Whiphid become the Emperor of the galaxy, then he must be doing a damned good job, or the galaxy (players) has a lot of issues.

      Some people enjoy playing the extremes. Some want to do it just for the RP.

    • Kora Participant
      November 9, 2010 at 4:43 am #16000
      "Muddledde":2sgrm89p wrote:
      I can understand what you guys are saying in a certain degree. Since this is a discussion, I will post another side:

      Every species able to be picked in this game, is the ‘norm’ for that species. This option allows the ‘extremes’ to be chosen. For a price of course. The player using their points to purchase this shows that they have had experience playing the MUD as well. So it’s not just a random newbie rolling a Sluissi BH.

      Also, this is an RP MUD, if you let a Whiphid become the Emperor of the galaxy, then he must be doing a damned good job, or the galaxy (players) has a lot of issues.

      Some people enjoy playing the extremes. Some want to do it just for the RP.[/quote:2sgrm89p]

      First of all, pretty much everyone enjoys playing the extremes and the "special" characters. That’s why we can’t just let anybody who wants to do it do it — there’d be no "typical" characters anymore, and the entire balance of the mud would go to hell.

      I came up with a trade-off system a little while ago, but in order to not throw off the balance of being like Star Wars it would have to have a certain degree of complexity, which is sort of what I was getting at in my post a few pages ago. However, I’m sufficiently desperate to procrastinate my homework that I’m going to attempt to explain my idea.

      You begin by picking a character and a main. Your levels get selected the same way they are now and nothing changes. You can go ahead and enter the IC world as you are and play as a normal character or you have the option to trade levels of one class for levels of another — for a price, if you wanted to do it that way. I’d say you should probably have to give up two levels for every one that you get, to really reflect that your character has spent so much time specializing in this one thing that they suck at everything else.

      However, this still creates the problem of allowing for a Jawa hunter. So, my thought is to only allow levels to be transferred between "related" classes, BHT and combat, for example. A Jawa hunter would probably get about 50 BH levels, and 30-ish combat. Tranferring all of their combat into BHT would give them 65 Bounty Hunting. That’s still pretty shitty.. hardly game breaking. It would allow for unique character builds without permitting the creation of ridiculous race/level combos that shouldn’t be allowed to exist.

      I actually thought up this idea to try and allow for "rare" skills to be actually rare. I was thinking that by transferring levels you could actually bump a class over 150 by taking huge hits to related classes. Skills that are supposed to be really rare would be up above 150, thus only attainable through "specialization". …But that’s a topic for another day. And not even an idea I’m entirely sure I support.

      Anyway, I’m not expecting people to think this is an awesome idea and want to implement it, nor am I expecting the coders to want to spend enough time on it to actually get it working. But it’s more food for thought. Bon appetit.

    • Muddledde Member
      November 12, 2010 at 9:45 pm #16043
      "Kora":7wa5jhc8 wrote:
      First of all, pretty much everyone enjoys playing the extremes and the "special" characters. That’s why we can’t just let anybody who wants to do it do it — there’d be no "typical" characters anymore, and the entire balance of the mud would go to hell.[/quote:7wa5jhc8]

      "Typical" gets boring. Oh no! Here comes the Gand/Trandoshan/T’Surr/Whiphid Combat/BH. But, I do see your point in game balance account point wise. As I stated before the Duros has a +50 net of modifiers in it’s skills. Adding the modifiers up, I compared the 4k account point races. Gand has a net of -20. Kel Dor +115 (with +10 force skill), Defel -75 (-20 force stat), and a Wookiee with -5. I’m sure other things like HP and stats are taken into account, but higher stats just mean you reach your max of 25 faster. It would make sense if they went above the humans norm of 25. I mean, a Wookiee is stronger right? Rip the ears off a gundark and all is an easy thing for a Wookiee to do. Almost every human (and probably some Jawas) could do it in this game. I’m going to make a forum on that.

      Back to what I was getting at. It would be extremely unbalanced for somebody to purchase a Duros 1k points (to rearrange his skills) and best a Gand who costs 4k points (without rearranging his points).

      Your suggestion isn’t bad, but it would be really really hard for somebody to play a competent BH Jawa, though it would be fun to watch one trying to tell you to "Give up!" in Jawa Trade Language.

    • chuckinator Member
      November 13, 2010 at 6:22 pm #16071

      I’d love to be able to purchase additional languages for an existing character using points instead of feats. Have some sort of limit like no more than 1 additional language per every 1-3 months of character age in real life or something. Also, have some sort of online check so that someone can’t just make a char, bench them, pull them out three or four months later and snap three languages for points.

    • chuckinator Member
      November 15, 2010 at 5:29 am #16105

      If you’re giving the option to purchase more levels, I would prefer picking 3 categories to increase only +5 rather than get a huge +25 or +30 increase in one category. There are a few characters that are already strong in one or two areas and would like to bump up the mediocre to decent in some of their lower level categories. Not saying to replace the option of a large gain in one category, but to have an option between the two mechanics.

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