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August 24, 2009 at 12:04 am #1169
The current Capital Rules prevent any clan from [i:1gctxy4t]ever[/i:1gctxy4t] truly winning a war. Wars drag on like stalemates until the End of Era/End of Timeline occurs because no clan is ever wiped out.
This may be great for the plot designers, but it makes it helluva boring for most, if not all, of the players.
Therefore, I believe Capital Rules should be rewritten to make Safe Sectors [i:1gctxy4t]not[/i:1gctxy4t] include a clan’s "Main Planet". Like Coruscant for the Empire/Republic. Instead, give each clan ONE safe sector, and require it to be somewhere remote and hidden (I.E. Polis Massa/Hoth for the Republic). This will allow clans to be "Wiped Out" and given a death blow.
With the current system, wars never end because clans cannot be destroyed.
With this new revision, though, would come a problem:
How do you declare a Clan "destroyed"?
I believe that if a MAJOR clan loses all of it’s planets and cannot retake any within five IRL days, that the clan should automatically disband.
– Skiia
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August 24, 2009 at 12:10 am #11018
1) Give them a fall-back planet. You’re kinda… ambiguous with your intent for their safe sectors. I’d like to see it as a sort of regrouping area (like Hoth was for the RA).
2) If they lose control of all planets (aside from their safe, fall-back planet), they’re downgraded to a minor clan.
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August 24, 2009 at 12:56 am #11020"Avanga":3efx50cq wrote:1) Give them a fall-back planet. You’re kinda… ambiguous with your intent for their safe sectors. I’d like to see it as a sort of regrouping area (like Hoth was for the RA).
2) If they lose control of all planets (aside from their safe, fall-back planet), they’re downgraded to a minor clan.[/quote:3efx50cq]
+1.
-1
Once they have lost all of their planets, their fall-back planet would be able to be attacked.
Though, it’d be hard to find, because it’d be hidden with navcharts.
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August 24, 2009 at 1:18 am #11021
Wiping the clan off the MUD doesn’t help anything. It’s easier to make a recovery with an existing clan, with existing players and existing credits and etcetera. Downgrading them seems like a better punishment. To me, at least.
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August 24, 2009 at 2:17 am #11023
I really WISH that clans could be destroyed. I’m SERIOUSLY tired of following a sort of "Canon" with the wars and such. Where the Rebels/Republic/Empire always wins that era. I wanna see a Mandalorian ruled era, wiping out the republic. I want to see the Empire wipe out the Rebels. I want to see the Vong completely obliterate the galaxy. I want "EVIL" to win for once!
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August 24, 2009 at 2:20 am #11024
And then what? T_T Remember, the game is a delicate balance. If somebody wins, none of the players will.
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August 24, 2009 at 2:25 am #11025
And then more people rise in their place to try and attack? How I see it, if the Mandalorians won the War. There would’ve still been a rebel alliance of non-mandalorians who want to bring back the Galactic Republic. It would still -work- in a way, but it’d be an alternate timeline. I’m just so SICK of going from Republic to Imperial to New Republic. It’s time for a change.
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August 24, 2009 at 2:40 am #11026
The Yevethans should’ve been wiped out already. It’s very likely that they would be all gone, if it wasn’t for capitalrules.
That would open the door to conflict between other factions (I.E. GA vs NR)
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August 24, 2009 at 3:53 pm #11056
The bad guys owned in Era 2.
I like Avanga’s idea of major clans being able to get downgraded to minor clans, when coupled with the no more "safe sectors" idea.
I think clans being completely wiped out could cause a lot more trouble, like one clan dominating every clan before it has chance to compete, and eventually there’d only be one major clan. No real sides.
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August 24, 2009 at 5:02 pm #11060
Being a habitual espionage player, I -liked- safe sectors, as retarded as that might appear on first glance. It’s one of the few things that you can do for a clan, really (matchvector is pretty gimped without them; raiding clan bases is either impossible–because you’re not a forcer/BHer/super combatant and people are online–or makes you look like a douchebag–because you’re not a forcer/BHer/super combatant and thus think to raid when people aren’t online).
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August 25, 2009 at 9:20 am #11067
If the bad guys won in Era 2, then why did the Republic still take over? This by assumption that Era two is the Imperial Era. And if they won, why did the Death Star get blown to hell? If someone’s going to win, they should remain in power, through to the next era. That’s all I’m saying, really. Is that we stick too close to semi-canon. Where as we go through Old Republic, Imperial, New Republic. Then again, I could be thinking this the wrong way due to lack of sleep.
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August 25, 2009 at 6:33 pm #11073"Onasaki":7d53qci7 wrote:If the bad guys won in Era 2, then why did the Republic still take over? This by assumption that Era two is the Imperial Era. And if they won, why did the Death Star get blown to hell? If someone’s going to win, they should remain in power, through to the next era. That’s all I’m saying, really. Is that we stick too close to semi-canon. Where as we go through Old Republic, Imperial, New Republic. Then again, I could be thinking this the wrong way due to lack of sleep.[/quote:7d53qci7]
Death Star was era 3, wasn’t it?
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August 25, 2009 at 6:48 pm #11075"Onasaki":256o3mwt wrote:If the bad guys won in Era 2, then why did the Republic still take over? This by assumption that Era two is the Imperial Era. And if they won, why did the Death Star get blown to hell? If someone’s going to win, they should remain in power, through to the next era. That’s all I’m saying, really. Is that we stick too close to semi-canon. Where as we go through Old Republic, Imperial, New Republic. Then again, I could be thinking this the wrong way due to lack of sleep.[/quote:256o3mwt]
I’m not sure if you were playing at the time so let me give a rundown on how things went.
1) Imperials consistently obliterated any attempts at opposition in era 2.
2) An End of Era event was devised that would split the Empire into two (Guldar Mohc, etc.)
3) Era 2 ends, Era 3 begins with three different Imperial factions and a pretty weak Republic based out of a now-public Mon Calamari. You could argue that Imperialism is still a dominant force, just now it is split between three clans instead of one juggernaut.
4) Players have their way with the storyline, and it just so happens that most of the Imperial factions are defeated or end up merging with the Imperial Union
5) A roleplay event/EoE was built around the Death Star, using plot points that had been developing since era 2. Being an imm-run event with a specific purpose, the Death Star was meant to be destroyed from the beginning.I definitely see what you are saying, and I do agree to the point. As a staff member, we are aware though that this is a Star Wars mud. If we stray too far from core elements, our audience will start to shift. This isn’t a bad thing, and it isn’t 100% obvious how it would shift, but the general premise of Old Republic -> Empire -> New Republic is a good cycle that we will be sticking to. This doesn’t mean, of course that we stick to the canon explanation of what those clans mean. Having been a leader in both this timeline’s Empire and last timeline’s Empire I am comfortable saying that they are radically different in terms of leadership, "Imperialism", persecution, things like that.
Anyway, getting back on topic. As a staff member I have to look at the whole of the situation. It is easy to look at the current IC situation with the Duskhan League and say that wars never really end. But looking beyond just this era:
Last era we had four or five clans that were, as I describe them ‘powderkegs’ (meaning they had the potential to conduct large scale warfare with the right push). Era 3 saw the rise and fall of many clans that had safe sectors. indeed, we had to invent rules on the fly for how clans actually lose safe sectors.
In era 2, like I mentioned, we had a dominating Empire, and is a good example of what the OP was talking about. Eventually the rebels were able to get enough support to warrant a safe sector, and even that didn’t stop them from habitually getting their faces star wars’d off. On the other hand, how would the timeline have panned out if the rebels were allowed to be crushed? If imms didn’t essentially step in to break the monopoly, it is probably pretty likely that Varn Andras and Arik Ghiel would still be routinely cracking skulls which would probably be equally boring for players, just in a different manner.
Clan warfare and all that comes with it (naval battles, planet capturing) is really the core of LotJ in my opinion. It’s a very delicate thing and some of the major issues have been highlighted in this thread.
With the current system, story-relevant clans like Republic are destroyed when the staff is ready to let them go. For the most part we try not to interfere, and if a clan like the Republic fucks up to the point where they are stuck in a single hidden sector we try not to prop them up, but sometimes it is just necessary to do.
All that being said, the system definitely needs some tune-ups, corrections, and clarified help files.
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