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October 29, 2009 at 8:53 pm #12210"Ocerion":90pa0zq3 wrote:A: No, a BH skill. Combatants get repeaters. Repeaters are the penultimate weapon, when used with flurry. Admittedly, some BHers get flurry, but only a rare few, and then they choose to rely on their COMBAT skills, rather then their BH skills. What I am talking about specifically, is the very thing that caused BOUNTY HUNTERS (Not soldiers?! OMGHAX!) to be experts with certain particular weapons. Such as Jango Fett with those PISTOLS. For a sole example.
[/quote:90pa0zq3]
In case you weren’t intelligent enough to understand what I’d posted (and apparently you aren’t): Jango Fett’s HUNTER abilities were not what made him a world-class (galaxy-class?) pistol duelist; it was his plain ol’ combat training. I’ve ALWAYS been an advocate for the return of any/all "BH" skills used in combat to be returned to combat mains and the class to be fleshed out as an actual noncombat class (that is, track/capture abilities); that hasn’t changed."Ocerion":90pa0zq3 wrote:B: So what you are saying is a skill that spends its entire existance waiting to be removed after one person uses it, is not a useless coding endevour? Are you on crack, or just an idiot who is looking for anything he can to counter a perfectly good arguement with? Face it, you can call the stuff whatever you want, but aside from the Regen, none of it serves any PURPOSE, whereas taking half the time to fix the engineering skills to make weapons, and make the weapons USABLE, would serve a purpose.
[/quote:90pa0zq3]
Now you’re just contradicting yourself, Oce. Twinblade was used for eras; stasis was used for TIMELINES; racial bonuses (in general; some specific ones are, necessarily, only as new as the race itself) have been around longer than I’ve been mudding. Also, you’re again confusing "useless" and "overpowered": while we can’t ever get inside Orion’s confused mind when he put in twinblade, I could take a decent guess and that he was intentionally trying to make forcers unbalanced–just like he did when he gave them resistances to blackjack and inject (my fault on that one); stasis, while potentially a "ditto," was a LEGITIMATE idea to rebalance the "light v. dark" issue of Forcers… it just failed to account for the fact that it’s useless against forcers.
As for the so-called "purposeful" coding endeavors: we can’t judge that until after it’s done. By your logic, stasis was the best thing to happen to forcers since the proverbial sliced bread (see my above comments on its intent)–ditto for pretty much everything… ever. If a coder KNEW their project was useless, they’d code something else (or change the specifics of their idea)!
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October 30, 2009 at 4:01 pm #12219
First off. Quit being a moron. NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU, PERSONALLY, ATTRIBUTE JANGO FETTS ABILITIES TOO. This isn’t about making the combat class more overpowered and your half wit contridictional obvious attempts to feel superior in your idiotic peabrained mind do nothing but make people sigh, and shrug you off as an irrelevent twit. It does not matter that shooting someone is technically a combat skill, an espionage skill, a command, a logon, a password, IT DOESN’T MATTER, its NOT THE POINT. Are you honestly so stupid you can’t manage to wrap your smug brain around it?
Now, onto AGAIN the second one, because apparently you’re pretty thick. Met a rock the other day, made better points…but thats a whole other story for a whole other day. Point is. If you can sit there, and tell me that twinblade wasn’t known to be useless when it went in…or Knockdown wasn’t known to be useless when it was put in…or the 50 million other total bust things that were coded, didn’t have some in there that they KNEW would be a useless and irrelevent thing after the coders buddies or pals finished their time with it (Disclaimer: Coders putting things in for friends is no longer an issue on LOTJ.) then you are either a freaken idiot, or under the mistaken belief that the way to suck up to the current staff is to defend the old staff.
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October 30, 2009 at 4:42 pm #12221"Ocerion":1c7h7z8r wrote:First off. Quit being a moron. NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU, PERSONALLY, ATTRIBUTE JANGO FETTS ABILITIES TOO. This isn’t about making the combat class more overpowered and your half wit contridictional obvious attempts to feel superior in your idiotic peabrained mind do nothing but make people sigh, and shrug you off as an irrelevent twit. It does not matter that shooting someone is technically a combat skill, an espionage skill, a command, a logon, a password, IT DOESN’T MATTER, its NOT THE POINT. Are you honestly so stupid you can’t manage to wrap your smug brain around it?[/quote:1c7h7z8r]
Because it’s my weekly "feel an ounc of pity" time, I’ll enlighten you on a bit of logic, Oce: arguing against an argument based on who posits it is called an argument ad hominem; it’s one of the basis errors of logic. (In case you couldn’t infer my implication, that means your argument is null-and-void.) As for the actual truth of the argument itself, you’ve failen again: it really doesn’t matter what [i:1c7h7z8r]I[/i:1c7h7z8r] think (see point above), because what I was saying is what [i:1c7h7z8r]EU[/i:1c7h7z8r] says: Jango Fett trained as a soldier LONG before he ever trained as a Bounty Hunter–and guess what? He didn’t magically gain the ability to shoot his pistol(s) well when he started training to hunt."Ocerion":1c7h7z8r wrote:Now, onto AGAIN the second one, because apparently you’re pretty thick. Met a rock the other day, made better points…but thats a whole other story for a whole other day. Point is. If you can sit there, and tell me that twinblade wasn’t known to be useless when it went in…or Knockdown wasn’t known to be useless when it was put in…or the 50 million other total bust things that were coded, didn’t have some in there that they KNEW would be a useless and irrelevent thing after the coders buddies or pals finished their time with it (Disclaimer: Coders putting things in for friends is no longer an issue on LOTJ.) then you are either a freaken idiot, or under the mistaken belief that the way to suck up to the current staff is to defend the old staff.[/quote:1c7h7z8r]
As for the "second one," again: arguing against what I say because I said it doesn’t dispute my argument; it makes you look like an illogical moron and your entire point moot. However, again, I’ll pity you and explain why your argument’s wrong: spouting nonsense and supporting it with examples still leaves you spouting nonsense. Ignoring the fact that your entire paragraph was about as easy to understand as one of Jedifreak’s musings on rage leading to the Dark Side, you’re seemingly putting forward the idea that–directly contrary to both common sense and what I said–knockdown, twinblade, et al were put into the game KNOWINGLY useless. Again, you’re confusing "useless" and "overpowered." (Haven’t you learned their definitions yet?) I would agree that some ideas–twinblade is the best example, IMO–were put in to be overpowered; I would never agree that they were put in to intentionally be useless. Why? If something is useless, it CAN NOT be overpowered–ever! It’s impossible for something to simultaneously have no use and be so overwhelmingly good at its use that it affects game balance.
On a semi-related note, I find your accusation of "sucking up" entirely hilarious, considering your "disclaimer." Hint: Rojan isn’t going to give you an sset.
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October 30, 2009 at 5:11 pm #12222
Guys guys guys, You both fail. MY E-Peen is bigger. Just give it up
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October 30, 2009 at 11:50 pm #12232
E-Peen? Who’s talking about an E-Peen…We got one person making suggestions that would improve things, and explaining why they are possible…And another guy who is denouncing them based off "Logic" while completely failing to realize this is a fantasy world with faster then light travel, lightsabers, magical powers, and weapons the size of planets.
In any case, there is no point in arguing with you at all RJ. Arguing is what you do, and frankly, I just don’t care enough. The point remains. In order to balance the mud, the Imms should add specialization feats for BHers, for specific types of weapons that aren’t repeaters, and then bloody fix the make skills on the certain weapons that need it, and we all know which ones those are. This would /FIX/ rather then /NERF/ the problem. A bizzare, and new take on problem solving, I am aware. But it just might work.
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October 31, 2009 at 11:23 pm #12237"Ranmyaku":2xxts0be wrote:Although in the case of dewclaws, which were to enhance the Yevethan RP(and did so quite well), most racial traits like regen, Whiphid salvation, and so forth do serve a purpose and make the races worth their costs, are easily coded, and help show each race for their unique qualities. Dewclaws are the exception because yevethans are going to be playable like..once a year or something.
Twinblade and Stasis seemed to be coded in at a time forces were asking, and receiving. Twinblade give a type of character(force user) an advantage it didn’t need and was just..ridiculous and pointless. Overpowered. Stasis just ended up abused, but I wouldn’t have said it was wholely pointless if used for more than paralyzing someone pre-PK.[/quote:2xxts0be]
The dewclaws were fun rp and fairly well balanced. They were unbreakable but did shit damage. Twinblade was retarded. Whiphid Salvation was useful enough that it got a couple of people permed. Stasis is not as overpowered as everyone likes to think, it has a pretty heft risk attached to it and fails frequently. The rule against using Stasis as a precursor to a perm is wildly abused by people claiming that their death should be overturned because they were stasised a week before their death by the same person, or stasised for capture by one person and executed by a different clan. Maybe that should be clarified to say something like "for the sole purpose of an immediate perm" or something, because in many situations, it’s the only non-suicidal way to get ahold of somebody, and even then it’s still not foolproof, but there still should be a prohibition against walking up to someone, stasis so they can’t fight/run, and perm them on the spot.
As for weapon abilities: face it, guys, some weapons are just BETTER than others. If I said you were going to go off to war, and you got to pick if you’d rather have a spear, a sword, a pistol, a light machine gun, or a high caliber rifle, you would, 90% of the time, pick one of the last two. There’s no problem with one thing being BETTER than another, the problem is if the rest of those are useless, and they’re not. Pistols could use a little tweak upward, and pikes need the HR/DR thing fixed, but that’s all, really.
As for the repeater gank squads, that’s a time-honored tactic. Really, they’re the only way to have a chance against yevethan/stormtrooper/unkillable sith/tentacle monster gank squads. "The NR in Era 4" didn’t invent the gank squad, they just used it. Just like I’m sure when clans start getting bigger this TL, there’ll be Arkanian/Lorrdian/Argazdan/Republic gank squads.
And RJ, stop being such a pedantic, argumentative, arrogant twit.
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October 31, 2009 at 11:36 pm #12240
To be fair, twinblade wasn’t INHERENTLY unbalanced; the fact that it was payment for sexual favors (i.e., clan development) and thus the limitations to CERTAIN forcers was what made it overpowered. Really, if a forcer manages to close with you, you’re FUBARed anyways–an extra hit or two won’t make much difference.
(For the record, I’m discussing the POST-fix version of twinblade–that is, the version that actually had a damcap.)And Fishy, I can tack on pointless, snide remarks and thus ruin an otherwise-useful post, too: eat shit.
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November 1, 2009 at 6:05 pm #12255
It seems that people still aren’t quite managing to grasp the point. It doesn’t matter if the skills were mildly usefull, or great for RP, or any such funderfull things. The point is, they do not add anything to the mud that would compare with what /LESS/ work could do, if that work was done on things that NEED to get done. The mud doesn’t need dewclaws, or twinblades, or such things. The mud /NEEDS/ proper bowcasters. The mud NEEDS makeforcepike not to be retarded. Those things would make a change that was not only relevent, but relevent to more then 1 person, 1 race, and lasted longer then 1 era.
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November 1, 2009 at 7:42 pm #12256"Ocerion":1mzvglsc wrote:It seems that people still aren’t quite managing to grasp the point. It doesn’t matter if the skills were mildly usefull, or great for RP, or any such funderfull things. The point is, they do not add anything to the mud that would compare with what /LESS/ work could do, if that work was done on things that NEED to get done. The mud doesn’t need dewclaws, or twinblades, or such things. The mud /NEEDS/ proper bowcasters. The mud NEEDS makeforcepike not to be retarded. Those things would make a change that was not only relevent, but relevent to more then 1 person, 1 race, and lasted longer then 1 era.[/quote:1mzvglsc]
Bowcasters and forcepikes are, to be entirely honest, so overplayed it’s not even funny. In Star Wars, bowcasters were rare–RARE!–weapons; they were priceless artifacts outside of Wookiee circles. Forcepikes, on the other hand, were cop weapons–pointy stun guns on sticks! Even slugthrowers (IRL guns, basically) were so much worse than blasters that 99% of the time, were someone given a choice between a bad blaster and a good slugthrower, the blaster would be the instant choice (a few special forces units were known to use slugthrowers–the Rebel ones that were too cheap to be able to afford the silenced/invisible blaster technology the Imperial agents had access to).
If you want weapon diversity for EU’s sake, bitch about slugthrowers, not bowcasters or force pikes. Hell, if bowcasters went in, logic demands Stokhi Spray Sticks, Geonosian sonic weapons, Gungan plasma weapons,Verpine shatter guns, Gand weaponry, et al.
If you want bowcasters just to want bowcasters, well… Have you ever even PLAYED a Wookiee?
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November 1, 2009 at 8:53 pm #12257
All I have to say is…And people wonder why Forums are rarely actually used as a source of idea’s to improve the mud. I’ve tried to have an intelligent discussion here. Its pretty clear that you’re either too stupid, or too full of yourself for one. I’m personally not gonna bother with this useless, murdered thread anymore, and declare my love for the Staff, as despite the many mistakes they have made over the years, they have never made RJ an Immortal.
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November 2, 2009 at 5:04 pm #12271"Ocerion":6dsl8d57 wrote:All I have to say is…And people wonder why Forums are rarely actually used as a source of idea’s to improve the mud. I’ve tried to have an intelligent discussion here. Its pretty clear that you’re either too stupid, or too full of yourself for one. I’m personally not gonna bother with this useless, murdered thread anymore, and declare my love for the Staff, as despite the many mistakes they have made over the years, they have never made RJ an Immortal.[/quote:6dsl8d57]
What you don’t understand is the actual definition of "intelligent discussion." You mistakenly believe that "discussion" implies "universal agreement." In other words, just because you’re wrong (and butthurt) doesn’t mean we weren’t have a discussion; you just think we weren’t having a discussion because the entire mud wasn’t worshiping your dick the moment you came up with your half-assed idea(s).
P.S. I was a builder (on the main port, NOT the build port) for a few months. Nice try, though.
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November 2, 2009 at 6:30 pm #12274
The only one who’s butthurt or wants universal agreement is you, RJ.
Ocerion: At this point, though, it’s more work to take those things out, and would piss even more people off. They’re in now, they might as well stay in. But instead of working on more shiny new stuff, the broken old stuff should definitely get fixed, and that’s something I’ve been saying for a while.
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November 2, 2009 at 11:30 pm #12275
RJ, if you really… really… [b:863qa1a5]really[/b:863qa1a5] wanted to be productive, you would stop making posts like these, because as soon as you hit a thread, everyone skips it by. Seriously, grow up.
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November 3, 2009 at 8:49 pm #12281"Avanga":tcfwft0x wrote:RJ, if you really… really… [b:tcfwft0x]really[/b:tcfwft0x] wanted to be productive, you would stop making posts like these, because as soon as you hit a thread, everyone skips it by. Seriously, grow up.[/quote:tcfwft0x]
…you do realize that this all started with Ocerion, yes?
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