Action Timers and Movement

A little more of an egregious oversight, in my personal opinion, is how most skills that have action timers (study, inject, lookup, meditate, etc) are broken on normal movement, but are not broken on movement that is caused by following someone. While I know this might seem like a minor thing, certain skills not being broken have led to situations…some rather interesting, others rather facepalming.

I propose that any skill that requires an action timer should be broken on movement no matter what the source of the movement is (shove, follow, tail, etc). It is only fair that skills requiring concentration (action timers) should be broken when such concentration is broken no matter how.

Let’s not mince words here. A group of players have been exploiting the fact that inject doesn’t break on follow movement or damage to perm forcers. It’s already obnoxious, but they’re not even giving most people the courtesy of the reacharound by waking them up and rping after, most of them have been straight up abuse of the oversight followed by a whisper perm. It’s just as if not as bad as a certain player ordering a shitload of illegal perms and getting banned for an era, and its definitely worthy of the same punishment.

it is rather obnoxious to be honest. i had thought they fixed the damage thing though. it really does need to be looked at though. it is abusing a broken system.

CODE UPDATES REGARDING INJECT:

-You now must be approach’d to inject a target
-Combat will interrupt inject
-Grabbing someone will not longer remove inject effects

Zeromus is right on that the original post is mincing words to hint at the issue, and its wrong to suggest bodging other skills rather than saying openly “look, THIS is the issue”.

Any OFFENSIVE ACTION (combat, hitall, blackjack, any of the numerous push/damage skills in a forcers repertoire) should stop inject dead. Simply moving away should not, as an opponent is still creeping up on you with an espionage skill. That is the way you fix and balance the issue without making the skill useless on the back of misuse.

I suppose it is because of me why two of these users felt the need to write this. While I cannot explain the details of the events that revolved around their deaths, I simply was told to kill them right away on purpose or else I too believe it is a shitty way for a forcer to die as well.

However have I exploited the skill to the point of making it look like a bug? Most certainly not. Ralen knows and stated how to get rid of it. Those who failed to defend themselves against the skill may feel bad for losing their forces, I can understand that. But to go on and state that the player who does this must get banned an entire era is just ridicilous. Especially because they did not see how inject was like before.

Removing the ability to hide when injecting was enough of balancing for inject skill than anything in my own opinion. Forcers will never go down in combat against non forcers, they will usually die in shitty ways. I’m sorry, that’s the reality of this game. But it is what it is, before pointing fingers and casting blame and screaming “OMG NERF IT NERF IT.” Please try to be as objective as possible on the matter. The 3 forcers I’ve killed this era except for one of them, (sadly the first two even though I don’t believe Kirash to have any actual hard feelings on the matter) had made the mistake of trying to run away.

You are a forcer, a nonforcer is trying to inject you. Just draw your lightsaber and whoop the living shit out of them, why are you running away? And if you must run away, the guy injecting you is not hiding. Don’t type group all, group disband, direction name in slow motion to get away.

I don’t think I am wrong on this matter and the necessity to must have approached first is a bit of a devastating nerf. You could instead put in a timer on the skill or I don’t know, work through the tail command? The time that it takes to inject a person is to approach them with a syringe and to inject it. Not to find a vein slowly as you feel up their arm. Anyways it was my own opinion on the matter.

I thought on the matter more… Even though I really don’t believe there needs to be a nerfing. If you must, an idea that comes to my mind is putting a delay timer to the inject skill. That way when you inject someone, if you are tailing them you’ll keep doing so. However if the person being inject disbands the group and takes off within 1-2 seconds, they can get away due to the inject delay timer? Maybe not as long as a kill or blackjack delay timer but something inbetween.

Like I said, there are only limited ways to take down a forcer. And if it is perceived as bug exploit, then you’d not be “balancing” the game, you’d simply be making forcers invincible.

The difference between things being equal and things being overpowered is if you start this skill and there is no way to combat it, then it is overpowered. Inject has not been made unreasonable, just more realistic as well as combatable on the victim’s part. You have to be close to stab them, and a prior bug that woke people up when you grabbed them has been removed thus making the skill stronger. That does not seem unfair at all.

Baxtalo on the contrary having used the skill and also been the “victim” of it before, I have an idea about its mechanics. You must’ve been under an illusion or inexperienced with the skill when you say that. I suppose I will now explain all the possible ways to prevent being injected.

1- You have high force level, you use throw lightsaber to initiate combat.
2- You draw a repeater, pistol, rifle, anything that works ranged. You hit the person injecting. Bam
3- You don’t have ranged weapons and you don’t have high force level? You have enough time to approach the person injecting you and hit them 5 times before inject is completed.

But the balanced version or so which you claim right now, gives the instant chance to get rid of the person injecting you. Simply drawing and typing hitall. How is that fair? It’s not rocket science to figure out what I’ve just said. The reason why this was effective in the first place is the moment you are being injected on a forcer, your adrenaline kicks in and you panick. The only one player that did not panick failed because his lightsaber throw wasn’t at mastery and his saber dropped.

Regardless I don’t believe the skill is now balanced. If anything, it’ll only be used for roleplay purposes when operating on a being for surgery. That is what it is nerfed down to right now.

PS: Grabbing them after inject goes through did wake up. Was it a huge problem? Not really. Especially not as devastating as having to approach a person to inject them.

Edit: Zeromus also had the wrong idea about the skill. If there was X and Y. X was injecting Y and after injecting started, Y initiated combat. Then even before the code change, inject would have failed. You can’t inject someone in combat.

It appears I worded my edit wrong. Inject does function when you use it upon someone and then the combat is initiated or if the person was already in combat. The only thing that changes is they wake up for being attacked on the next combat round. Apparently force choke didn’t stop the command before… Still though, this skill is now useless for PK purposes if it’ll be kept like this. (Except for if you allow a doctor to inject you, instead of operating on you, they kill you. What are the odds of that happening?)

Hitall is a combat skill, just the same as murder (which you suggested) for stopping inject. Combat is initiated either way, I do not see your point.

P.S.: Power to the doctors.

We’ll be moving off topic but I might as well explain. Murder will initiate combat, aye. However it will give you 2-3 turn delays. Where as hitall comes without any delay. So after typing hitall you can use another command or set of commands to bring down your foe or to ensure they remain there. I personally never use the murder command to initiate combat, so call it an old habbit. But the idea is to initiate combat with the person injecting you. Once that is accomplished inject will not bring you down even if it is successful.

PS: However if you do for some funny reason do rest, sleep on your character. You will not be able to wake up until the inject sleep tick goes off. Then again combat now immediately stops inject as opposed to waking you up on next round after being injected.

“When you use murder, combat is initiated.” “When you use hitall, combat is initiated.” You are almost arguing against yourself. Your postscript’s relevance is lost on me as well.

Seeing as you already marked yourself as the probable cause of the complaints because you have killed several people using now-defunct injection method, it seems to me that at this point you are just upset it doesn’t work the same way as before.

Uh Baxtalo I’ve lost you… I don’t really understand what you are trying to state with murder and hitall. My argument was that inject as it was before the latest change was balanced. I am writing here to argue that it did not need the recent changes that requires person injecting to be -near- the person they are injecting syringe to. I am not upset per sa but disappointed because these changes did not really balance the skill, instead made it pointless. It just made the game less skill oriented. More automated in regards to PK.

The people who died from that method have done nothing to avoid it but try to group disband and get away slowly except for the third forcer. If it was someone else who is well versed in PK, they’d have known how to behave in that moment to avoid being injected. That was my point entirely.

Did you seriously say it made the game less skill oriented? Jesus christ dude, sorry that you lost your instant win button, I’m sure you’ll find some other bug to exploit. And the skill is still useful for PK, just because you haven’t thought of a way to use it doesn’t mean that it is.

Also, you’re incredibly wrong about being able to inject in combat. I did it to someone shortly after you did it to me. Trust me, this skill was extremely buggy/overpowered.

“Did you seriously say it made the game less skill oriented?”
Yes Zeromus it did. People who are less competent than others in PK will not have less disadvantage in the game.

“Jesus christ dude, sorry that you lost your instant win button, I’m sure you’ll find some other bug to exploit.”
Do you even think on a matter before you go on whining about it? By the looks like it, you most certainly do not. You tried inject 2-3 times. I’ve been using it for years now ever since Valens pwned me with it. It was nothing instant. It was an acceptable way to take down someone I cannot take down in combat. It is not a bug exploit, as such was stated to me by a Staff member.

“And the skill is still useful for PK, just because you haven’t thought of a way to use it doesn’t mean that it is. ”
Yes Zeromus almighty, though I think you actually forgot to test the inject code after it was changed by Walldo. Guess what, typing -approach none- alone was enough to get rid of the injection. Don’t need to attack, don’t need to move. Don’t need to do nothing, just type approach none so long as they are not in your group.

“Also, you’re incredibly wrong about being able to inject in combat. I did it to someone shortly after you did it to me. Trust me, this skill was extremely buggy/overpowered.”
I’m not sure if you can inject someone who is fighting or not. I must’ve tried it back in the day but I do not remember. It is mainly pointless because once the next combat turn kicks in, you’ll wake up for being attacked at. You just had to initiate combat, that was all you had to do. Initiate the combat and the inject would be pointless unless afterwards you wrote rest and sleep, assuming that I did not type stop to stop injecting.

Now trust me when I say this. I’ve used this skill many times, this skill was used against me many times. I knew the downfalls. The changes before this one to it (Not being able to hide when injecting and cloaking device is included) was what balanced this skill. If you are telling me that you cannot type;
draw
approach target
hitall
With your forcer in 15 seconds, then dude I don’t know. Maybe we are arguing over a lost cause.

I realize my manner is aggressive but you all seem to be missing a point here. Just accept that you botched in that particular situation, do not cast blame on a perfectly working system beforehand. I say this with such passion because it was a balanced skill back then.

Ps: Injecting was hardly just one tactic to take down a forcer. There are still few other tactics.

And if you wish to argue the point further, we can do so through messages or in game. I am truly willing to prove you wrong because I know you are wrong.

Sorry if I offended you, I was offended when you went off on your rage post stating I should be banned for an era because you didn’t know how to avoid being injected.