Rule 14 and who it applies to.

I’ve not personally had any issues in a while (minus the issue at the start of the TL which in itself was pretty much just brushed off) and all the other one’s went ignored when they were reported, emailed, logs sent and so on. So even if I had an actual issue currently, I wouldn’t feel at this point that sending anything in would be seriously addressed, because it never has in the past. Which just happens to be the current problem, that a player feels they’ve reported an issue and continues to get ignored over it, allowing a staff member to continue doing something that the player has stated several times now they feel harassed over. I almost never have OOC on and have seen this issue on OOC multiple times now, one of which you were in the middle of the discussion. So for me saying you’re steering this in another direction, you logged on here and posted the word for word rules and asked if there was really a rule being broken. If you don’t see the issue with that, I’m not really sure what to tell you? You have a player that has voiced a concern that they claim is serious to them and instead of even coming close to addressing that issue, you instead post up what amounts to “point to the line of rule that he broke” when you already know the issue at hand here. Hell, I don’t even like Andvari that much, but I hate seeing any player feel they have been wronged over something that can easily be taken care of with the right choice and just a few words.

Edit: I’m not willing to discuss my personal issues that I’ve had here, in the open on the forums because I don’t think that’s appropriate, but Walldo if you want me to send them to you, I’ll be more than happy to do so. I have quite a good memory over such things and would be more than willing to have a civil discussion with you about it.

Edit x2: Walldo, I’m not trying to attack you on this or anything. But ever since I started playing LOTJ many years ago, the issue of the staff completely disregarding legit player issues is an ongoing problem. This is especially true when it concerns player vs staff instead of player vs player.

Also, @Andvari, nothing personal with the above statement, but we’ve rubbed each other wrong a few times in the past and there’s no sense in anyone thinking I was arguing because we were all buddy buddy or something and thus ignoring the convo lol. I don’t have anything personal against you or anything, just for the record.

Short and sweet on this, but having been forced to stop talking about things in the past, and having been silenced for ignoring when people complained and continuing to discuss them anyway as well, I have to say that this is something that should be unilaterally enforced across the board. And being gay is illegal in some states still, and punishable by death in certain parts of the world. That has nothing to do with anything but a random topic that we aren’t allowed to discuss most of the time because it’s controversial, sort of like drugs. Don’t brush this off immstaff, take this opportunity to address this reasonably worded argument before it boils over into frustration again.

The problem with saying “Maintain PG-13” is that oftentimes, it can be entirely subjective. I cannot count the amount of times when I was an RPC, I’d get told to silence someone (or yelled at for not silencing someone) for something, and then a few days later, when I silence another person for the same thing, I get told that I’m being too strict. Obviously, if someone finds something is offensive, it should be stopped without question. Bebop’s argument that you should just turn off OOC is way too commonly used, the OOC equivalent of brushing a problem under a rug, and only serves to compound the problem because it is not getting fixed. Using some blanket rule like “Keep it PG-13” is dumb. No one, and I do mean no one, should be allowed to get away with harassment period; not you, me, the RPC, or the IMM staff. If you want people to keep playing the game, then there should not be special “overlook-this-guy” for anyone at all. Enforce what you write.

Just so you know, it isn’t just Veska on the staff that breaks rule 14. More importantly, I’ve been saying that Rule 14 needs to be enforced properly for a long time and no one cared then, and now, instead of being harassed by players, I’m harassed by immortals if/when I try to play. So. This game. Hopefully someone else can find a solution because no one damn sure listens to me.

And I have emailed, and emailed, and emailed, and then told “oh, I didn’t realize”, or whatever other excuse. Instead of problems truly being listened to or acknowledged, they are instead greeted with “well, we can’t change what’s already happened”, or questioning the validity of what is being said – even with logs. If we feel rule 14 is being broken, and are genuinely offended, we should be able to go through the appropriate avenues to get the situation looked into and something be done about it. However, it doesn’t seem as though any immortals ever looks into complaints about rule 14, and even more so if it’s an immortal involved. It’s to the point where I don’t feel that I can even play anymore because I’m being not-so-silently judged by the immortals. Snide remarks when I say anything or ask questions. For years I was told to turn off OOC when people were harassing me. For years I was told to gag people. Finally, FINALLY, I was able to bring myself to keep OOC communication off and I am rewarded with instead being harassed by immortals who make me literally feel like I am the scum of the Earth. This treatment starting when my entire IC team gave up helping me run Telgorn by not logging in, and I did it by myself for months before I just couldn’t do it anymore so I requested that the clan be shut down. I cared too much, so instead of suiciding my character, I tried to work something out with the immortals. I have spent too much time trying to be a nice person on this game, helping people when I can, and for the immortals to reward people who are assholes and run me off instead – that is ridiculous.

In the end, rule 14 enforcement has been an ongoing problem for years. In fact, this game is why I was cyberbullied before that was even a term. I hope there is ever a solution to the problem, because people don’t deserve to be treated like scum by people who essentially hide behind an IP address.

Also, if we’re wanting to talk about the wording of rules, especially in regards to not seeing logs or emails concerning these issues, look at Rule 16. If I bring my concerns to IMM-A and they do nothing about it, the rules state that I’m not allowed to go to IMM-B now. I get the “real” reason for the rule, to stop players who don’t like a verdict on something, from going to another staff member. (IE: Mom says I can’t get that new iPhone, so let me go ask dad.) But having rules that basically promote the idea that if you’re ignored and go to another staff member, you could then get in trouble for that, doesn’t help things out.

There have been times when I’ve provided logs for things and have been argued with, talked down to, and ultimately ignored. But, you’d think that with Rule 16, if you go to a higher up imm because a lower imm isn’t doing their job, that it’d be dealt with. Like going to a manager.

My dear fellow LOTJers.

Since cannabis saved my life a little over two years ago, I took on a mission to help end the prohibition of this life-saving herb. Before seeking medical advice and switching to cannabis, I was hospitalized multiple times at the VA for 30 day + trips, and was taking over 9 pills a day. I was struggling with suicidal thoughts, caused by the host amount of pills blindly given to me by my Army doctors.

I replaced all pills with a single herb. I was able to return to the workforce, and take on hobby’s to simply enjoy life and have fun – something I was completely unable to do while on the mainstream treatment plan.

It hasn’t been easy. Since I’ve become more vocal about this wonderful plant, I’ve met quite a bit of opposition.

Every single day, I have to deal with people – like Andvari – who utilize very aggressive behaviors to either get me to stop talking about , or to stop taking cannabis. I’ve had family that stopped talking to me for a time, I’ve had to turn down a plethora of job offers to include a position at Nintendo because they requested I stop taking the plant. I’ve had a plant that has enabled me to learn over a dozen programming languages and return to the workforce, be used to call me just about any cuss word you can imagine – I’ve even had my lifestyle compared to bestiality.

And even though, I am spending my free time, smoking cannabis – and writing code for all of YOUR enjoyment, I am banned from talking about it. I’m not talking about the immature “omg i’m soo fucked up” that often riddles our OOC channels from our alcohol-consuming players – but talking about the herb in a responsible and positive light.

If Andvari ever actually took the time to listen to what I’ve had to say, he’d soon realize that this has nothing to do with him, and everything to do with me talking about the organism that saved my life. Not once have I ever talked to Andvari specifically, but rather – he has interrupted every single conversation I’ve held, putting himself into the spotlight as some martyr from the evil Immy.

I find it very ironic, that this post is about rule 14. I get cussed out, made fun of, and harassed every single time I talk about it, from the same person who is calling for a rule 14 violation. I realize that this is a very sensitive topic, which is why I had significantly cut back my discussing the plant, and have even helped regulate the topic when it does come up; But violating rule 14, for a perceived rule 14 violation isn’t right – and it has happened every single time I have brought up the topic.

I realize that the end of prohibition is probably going to be difficult for many of you, finding out all the ‘drug’ rhetoric that some of you have been latching onto has all been a lie; so much so, that you find that even the mere discussion of a plant, is “harassment” aimed at you. The same people that bring this up are cussing me out, then turn to OOC and talk about sex, alcohol, violence, war; and possess a high rate of rule 14 violations themselves.

This is clearly hypocrisy, and I cannot morally stand for it. Millions of people in America consume this plant, a vast amount of which are prescribed it and consume it as a medicine – like myself – and many others simply use the plant to find a higher quality of living in their god-given pursuit of happiness. Over 13 states have made it legal to consume this plant medically, and two have made it legal for recreation.

More people are dying from prescription pill overdoses than car crashes, and we have a medically proven alternative that has no chance of overdose death, or addiction – and I’m being cussed out over talking about it – are we going to ban CNN for their Chief Medical Correspondent admitting that he, and all science produced by the prohibition were wrong? That this plant actually is a medicinal plant that has been used by humans regularly up to 1913?

I will not be harassed and bullied into silence. If I was doing something wrong, or approaching the subject in an immature manner, you all know me well enough that I would correct my behavior if it was brought up. That isn’t the case here – not once has there been a constructive conversation about this topic, just name calling, cussing and a hijack of the OOC channel about how they don’t like the current conversation and it’s harassing them.

If the LOTJ community truly does not want any talk about cannabis on their channels, then I will be leaving the community. I will not volunteer my time for a community that continues prohibition based on lies, nor will I belong to a community that will allow its members to harass those who talk about something they don’t like.

I will not continue to contribute to the community, nor will I resume contributing until this issue is resolved. I have been playing here for nearly 10 years, but this is a crossroads for me. I hope you all understand.

Sincerely,
Veska

Dude it’s great that you found religion, but it’s sort of like your dick. You don’t need to talk about it except with close friends, and you really don’t need to shove it down anyone’s throat.

I salute you sir. I personally wish you nothing bu good health and prosperity.

Veska, I’m going to be honest here. 95% of what you just said has nothing to do with anything related to this subject. Read QS’ post above, it’s perfect for this occasion. The argument isn’t about if marijuana is good for you or not. Nobody cares for a history or American politics lesson here. The argument is about the IMMs continually ignoring player issues, especially when those issues concern other staff members. I find your quote below quite interesting considering the situation.

nor will I belong to a community that will allow its members to harass those who talk about something they don’t like.

On a personal level that is actually related to your post, congrats on finding something that works for you. I’ve had many friends that have been aided medically by marijuana in multiple situations. However, as far as a crusade to make sure everyone knows about it, take it the same way you would politics (or as QS pointed out above, religion). Not everyone is going to agree on these subjects and the majority of the people hate being preached to regarding these things. And the stronger their feelings are in the opposite direction for these things, the more they’re going to resent it.

QuickSilver, your statement is very far from the truth. I don’t force anyone to do anything, nor do I force my beliefs onto anyone. All I do is talk about the plant, with others who enjoy it as well. When the community shifts the topic, I go with it. I don’t Immy-rule OOC, nor do I harass any players with my talk about cannabis.

This is a big deal, because a small population have decided to personally make it a vendetta to control this topic on OOC – and have taken it to such an extreme that they cuss out and harass the players who talk about it – and then claim harassment as a justification.

I always tell people to seek medical advise about consuming the plant, and I have never once preached immature or irresponsible use of the plant. I talk about the plant – because it doesn’t, and shouldn’t matter if I talk about it – this is an adult themed community where sex, violence, drugs, alcohol, and war occur ICly and OOCly on a regular basis. If talking about a medicinal plant is a violation of the morality of this community, than I want nothing to do with this hypocrisy.

The fact this is being brought up as a Rule-14 violation and isn’t a “hey Veska talks about cannabis too much, can we get it toned back a bit?” is a symptom of a problem here at LOTJ:

We have a small culture of players, who verbally attack/harass anyone who they don’t like, or agree with.

Also, Corey:

I hear what you are saying, and I agree. When I first started talking about cananbis at LOTJ I was a bit preachy, and Walldo told me to tone it back – so I did. I haven’t preached the use of cannabis since, and I only talk about it to people who want to talk about it.

And my rant had everything to do with this topic. There are two issues presented : 1) a verbal abuse issue at LOTJ and 2) me talking about cannabis.

I have defended #2, and I also confirmed #1.

The thing is this: I don’t need to post a sob story. I had a serious drug problem once-upon-a-time and I don’t need to be reminded about it every time I’m on my “escape from reality”.

I have not cussed you out or verbally abused you for talking about cannabis. I have asked you to stop repeatedly because I have a legitimate problem with it, and you continue to push the issue and tell me to go fuck myself without saying the words. I can’t count how many times you’ve said “It’s just an herb” “It’s legal in washington state” “You’re just a right winger trying to control everyone” or just flat out ignored my request and escalated the conversation.

If my talking about war caused you problems with PTSD, and you asked me to cut it out, do you think I’d stop? The answer is a very clear “Yes”, I would stop.

You and I have a great deal in common. We both served, we both saw things we didn’t want to see, and we’ve both had serious issues in the past. Drugs -were- my serious issue, they’ve fixed yours.

Please just respect what I ask.

Andvari. You have cussed at me, and called me names – you even went as far as to compare my lifestyle to bestiality. Come on man, you know yourself – and you do resort to name calling when and cussing when you don’t like something.

I understand you have a problem with it, which is why I compromised and kept to talking about it to just once a day, when you aren’t active on OOC.

But to say I cannot talk about something I enjoy because YOU made poor decisions in your past, is absolutely absurd. It’s even more absurd that you would consider me having a conversation with other players to be harassment towards you. Almost every single time I’ve brought it up, YOU weren’t active on OOC. But the second I talk about it, you sure make sure to hop on OOC to let me know YOU don’t want it to be discussed.

By your logic, an alcoholic would be upset about people talking about alcohol. a Diabetic, candy. An anemic, food. I don’t ask you to not talk about war, because I have the understanding to just -OOC if a topic is being discussed that I don’t like, or brings up bad memories. I don’t try to ruin the experience of the LOTJ community because of an issue that I have.

I don’t have a problem keeping cannabis talk shut when you are around – as I have been for the past few months – but what I do have a problem with, is your uncalled behavior. How many other players are you doing this to, when you don’t get your way? I personally think this is a behavioral problem here at LOTJ, and I would absolutely love to try and figure out a way to mitigate it.

The lack of respect between players at LOTJ is something that has bothered me for a while now, and maybe this is the time we get a discussion going to fix it?

Perhaps the concept of “Private IM” should come into play here? WHAT EXACTLY DOES WEED HAVE TO DO WITH THE DAMNED GAME? And why does LOTJ repeatedly have people pushing their “drama llama” selves. If you’re NOT 13-18, it’s time to put on your “I’m an adult now pants”. If you’re setting out to make someone uncomfortable just for the simple joy of it, you might wanna take a look at your reasons and perhaps, just perhaps, think it over? But, by all means, continue to drive off RPers looking for a relaxing experience. Nothing wrong with a completely incestuous (ooops – not PG 13) set of RPers who end up circling each other again and again replaying the same old hash.