Limiting restore requests

In my several terms as RPC, I’ve noticed that there’s certain players who request a restore every single time they are permed regardless of the reason. One or two in particular, I’ve never personally observed a restore request with merit produced. Every single time it is denied, regardless of who the current make up of the RPC is. I’d like to suggest a change to how restore requests work, as a result. I think that there needs to be an adjustment to how frequently people can request them. As such, I believe there should be a scale.

Each era, you accrue one restore request. The first restore request per timeline is always free, but it is the only free one you get. This is designed to make people really think before they submit a request, instead of it being the first thing they do upon death. Why is that? After the first request, regardless of the outcome, the second request should eat any points the character would have earned but still return the deposit. The third request would eat the points earned plus the deposit.

I think this would significantly cut down on people who believe that the part of any character death is the subsequent restore case. That’s not what the system is meant for, but that’s how people use it. I think this is something that would benefit everyone.

I can tentatively support something of this nature. If it’s REALLY an illegal perm though, I don’t think you should be punished points for contesting it.

I don’t think it matters. Really, truly illegal perms happen so infrequently that people shouldn’t really have to burn their free request.

I think the big thing that people have forgotten is that ICA = ICC. In character action equals in character consequence. People get so wrapped up in their personal RP that they don’t see the big picture from the other guys’ perspective. What they see as a slight on their own person, really has nothing to do with their permer’s reason to ice that character.

There are systems in place to ensure that frivolous restore requests, just as well as perms, are appropriately punished. Limiting a player’s ability to question whether or not their perm was legal when the situation merits it is an absolutely unfriendly stance toward the playerbase at large, and is not an idea worth merit.

Really? What punishments are given out, typically, for frequent abusers of the restore process?

In the past, I’ve seen certain offenders have their murder commands restricted, and others warned for submitting frivolous restore requests, and possibly some other punishment doled out. I’m not an imm, so I can’t answer as to what they exactly do, (not to mention, that sounds like an A-B interaction, and we’re definitely C parties), so I can only answer based on the fringe experiences I’ve had.

However, that process never starts unless the RPC point out to PR that a frivolous case has been submitted and engage with them to make sure that it is properly noted. The issue you seem to be having is those frivolous situations are not being reported to the imms so they can be handled.

I’m sorry, I don’t understand how restricting someone’s access to the murder command deters a permee from submitting frivolous restore cases. Could you elaborate on that? I’ve personally never observed or heard about anyone being punished for frivolous cases and I report them every time I feel they’ve come up, and I have talked to several other current and former RPC members who report them as well.

Maybe rather than blanket limiting everyone’s ability to contest their deaths, Zeromus’s proposed system could be imposed on people found to habitually submit frivolous restore requests, as something of a middle ground?

I was responding as to punishments for both frivolous perms and restore requests.

You’re currently on RPC. If you see a frivolous situation come up, bring it up with the imms on appropriate channels so it can be addressed. If there are people who believe that a restore request is ‘part of the death process’, that’s a separate issue which needs to be discussed and rectified with the parties who believe that. As someone who has also been on RPC and is currently on it, I don’t see a widespread issue with people treating restore cases frivolously.

I think we could honestly limit these requests if we added a buffer period between the perm and the restore submission. Say, 24 hours. I think at a good majority of frivolous restore cases are submitted in a knee jerk fashion before the permed player has a moment to consider how and why they were permed. I know in the past I’ve submitted a restore and as I’m explaining it to the RPC I’ll think “Oh, yeah… that might be why they permed me.”. Anyways, that’d be my suggestion.

I’m with paco on the 24 hours bit but still require the request in with the next 24 if they want to do it. With regards to potentially limiting requests it should be like challenge flags in football. You get two and if you win them both you get a third. If you aren’t winning your restores try and figure out why. Zero, could give more info as to why a restore was denied without delving to heavily into IC and that would help cut restores. The same character is probably just getting the “Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it’s a no”

Yeah I’ve always been of the opinion that we should be able to tell people why they weren’t restored so they can learn from it for the future. If player A kills player B in a jail cell because Player B resigned from Player A’s clan without notice after accepting a bunch of free stuff and the being a dick to Player A in the cell we should be able to tell Player B like “Hey, well you joined a clan and accepted a bunch of shit only to resign without notice, and then when captured you spit in Player A’s face, called him a dick and slipped your cuffs, so he permed you.” It’s not like this isn’t something Player B didn’t see firsthand, so why can’t we enlighten him/her that is why they were permed?

The reason we don’t do that is because of a tendency for people’s friends to suddenly know all the details of why they were killed when information like that is given.

Merit’s to both sides. I, for one, am definitively known for that knee-jerk reaction sometimes. More often than I’d like to admit, come to think of it. And I’m with both sides. It’s more of a situation where I – personally – am irritated and frustrated that I just lost a character I spent a lot of time developing. And the first thought is, “I’ll show that f_cker! I’ll get a restore and wait it out then get my revenge!” And then, just like Paco, conversations are had with the RPC and it’s like, “oh…well…ok…that was kind of a dick move on my part, that MIGHT be why.”

Just because I don’t see it in the present doesn’t mean I won’t see it in the future. So, entirely probable….24 hour cool-down. Grab your logs, get them together, compose it properly, then submit. Or, hell, maybe even just a 12 hour cool-down. Enough time to sleep.

Then, of course, I had a very interesting conversation with Oteri and Zero just the other day on the subject. The largest frustration is not knowing why. Damn who it was, just….why was it denied? Don’t be vague. Pose it as a generic situation (just like Paco said). And, truthfully, it shouldn’t come from the RPC. I think the presiding judge should make the time to sit down and go: “Hey, there’s the deal.”

Sometimes all it takes – like with me – is just a quick (or hour long) conversation. And Bax is right about the punishments. I can personally attest that I’ve been punished for being a douche-bag on the restore requests. Couple years ago, there was just a series of seriously unfortunate events wherein my characters just kept dying because I was being an asshole. So, I went for a restore for every one of them without real justification. Fought with the RPC about it and everything. No one’s perfect folks.

I actually think I got a 30 day cool-down because of it too. I can’t remember it it was for that or because in a similar conversations when PR got involved to smooth it all out I mouthed off to them too. Probably the later.

But, I think it’s a solid idea if it were hammered out more. Maybe not a point system. We rely too much on our points as it is! 🙂