Level Minimum for Joining Clans

Now, I know what you’re all going to say: Absolutely not. However, hear me out first.

I think there should be a minimum level, such as level 100, for joining a clan if the clan does not have a recruitment center set up in the academy. Not that I know code, but it shouldn’t be too difficult to make a level check for induct. There are a few reasons for this:

First reason: Hidden Clans. If you have ZERO skills, technically there would be no way that a hidden clan should even know about you. And in all reason, if I applied to some badass crime clan as a talentless wannabe thief, they would never hire me in their right minds. So basically, can you same AIM clique?

Second reason: Clans can get a bunch of untrained people who are expected to do things. How can you expect your piloting character to pilot capital vessel when he can’t even fly medium spacecraft yet? How can you be a guard if you can’t handle a blaster, vibroblade, bowcaster, forcepike, or whatever?

Third reason: This would be a good way to keep newbie characters out of clans and give them some extra time to learn the mechanics behind the game before jumping right into some conflict. This doesn’t mean unclanned people are safe, but it means they would be safe from a clan killing them due to just being at war.

Fourth reason: Engineering clans. I have a gripe with engineering clans as it is, however by forcing the members joining to be at least level 100, they can do something other than sit in the clan and make money while never leveling or training. A company usually doesn’t hire people right off the street. You need a resume, qualifications, etc.

Fifth reason: Alts. Bringing alts into a clan just to bolster numbers is stupid. Bringing alts into a clan to actually do something is worthwhile. The level 100 minimum would help make sure the alt would be more than just a sitter. It would also make numbers in clans more realistic then have 80 people in your clan, but only 20 of which are trained.

I could probably come up with more reasons, but that would just make more frustrated.

One of the primary draws to joining a clan is that they’ll level and gear you.

If a clan wants to level and gear new members, they can have an academy join option.

Or they can do something like have a Delayed Enlistment Program or some shit.

Besides all that, lookup shows the player’s level. So you can not induct newbs if you don’t want to.

Do either of you have those restrictions? Or even better have you ever heard of any clan enforcing standards like that? Isn’t that the point of coding something in? When people don’t enforce commonsense? It is a fail-safe that should be in place. You want to be a newbie friendly clan? Put enlistment in the academy. That simple.

There are numerous ways to make money and obtain gear without being in a clan. Not to mention, there are points to be spent if you want to immediately join a clan. Or even, how long does is really take you to train up your character to level 100 in something? A day at most? At least if you need to train up before joining a clan, chances are you’ll be more rounded as well.

Personally, I’m sick of running into clanned people that aren’t trained and are expected to participate in clan activities. When leadership fails, code prevails!

I don’t enforce that sort of stuff in my clans because I try to help people out in my clans. If I were running a clan where I only wanted avatar’d people in it, yeah, I would enforce that. But I don’t, because I’m not.

[quote:2745lwax]Third reason: This would be a good way to keep newbie characters out of clans and give them some extra time to learn the mechanics behind the game before jumping right into some conflict. This doesn’t mean unclanned people are safe, but it means they would be safe from a clan killing them due to just being at war.[/quote:2745lwax]

newbies in clans do way more good than harm as far as learning the game. if they get permed in a war, it’s still possible to get a restore because 9/10 the perm was an incredibly shitty one by a dumbass looking to up their count.

[quote:2745lwax]Fourth reason: Engineering clans. I have a gripe with engineering clans as it is, however by forcing the members joining to be at least level 100, they can do something other than sit in the clan and make money while never leveling or training. A company usually doesn’t hire people right off the street. You need a resume, qualifications, etc.[/quote:2745lwax]

sometimes you have to sacrifice realism for the sake of the whole "it’s a game" aspect

I completely disagree.
Your first reason
This is what RP is for. Not everyone wants to RP that they are completely untrained fresh from the academy. Your point is valid there. But what about people who have a back story for their character where they are a former general or something. They could be known and could be of use in that aspect.
It wouldn’t be the first time my character lied to a hiring person about skill I said I had that I had not leveled yet, in order to get a job or promotion. Let RP handle this.

Your second reason.
This sort of merges with the first. Not everyone in a clan is supposed to be able to fly a cappie. Look at any corporation or organization in the real world. You don’t expect the newly hired secretary at Microsoft to be able to design the next windows. It just doesn’t work that way there is a hierarchy of command and a hierarchy of talent.
You say how do you expect someone to be a guard if you can no uses weapons- uhm hello; Military. You join the military go through basic to learn these things. In LOTJ you get hired the clans Security or military takes you under their wing and trains you (if this doesn’t happen it’s a failure of the clan leader- replace them.)

your third reason.
I learned how to play this game because of the clans I joined when I first started. It was the players in these that taught me things when I needed help. Asking on channel 0 gets less response than asking on a clan channel. From what I have seen Newbies who start in clans are more successful than those that don’t.

your fourth reason.
Again similar to one and two but,
90% of the clans I have been in have a starting rank of either Intern, Apprentice, trainee, ect. When a company is hiring an Intern, apprentice, Trainee they are not looking for someone who is over qualified; you look for someone with a basic knowledge (IE someone who just graduated) who you can train the way you want them to be trained. You don’t go around promoting people who are under level 100 (if you do without /very/ good reason, that’s suspicious) In the real world as well as in LOTJ you often have to hire people without a direct knowledge for low level positions.

Fifth reason.
You’re right this is stupid. Though I don’t see this happening as often as I think you do. Most of the Alts I see in clans are leveled to at least 100. That doesn’t change the fact that they are a ‘sitter’. In my clan this TL a majority of the Alts that were ‘sitters’ were 100+

And I have to agree with Avenga. If I want a clan with these restrictions I will enforce it. But I personally like to be in clans and lead clans which are Newbie friendly.
Making clans harder for newbies to join I think will discourage them.

I see where you’re coming from on this, but I still don’t like the idea.

I’ll tell you straight off the bat, had I not been inducted into Starlight Industries when I first started playing LotJ, I would not have been able to grow as a player, or even function as a player. Certainly, there were more people wandering in public then and I -might- have been able to get aid and credits from other players to train myself as an engineer, but the people in that clan are the reason I was able get involved in things, be a part of the storyline, and learn about gameplay. I am 100% against implying a code restriction against low-level players joining clans.

There are some people who go out of their way to induct new people -into- their clans to allow them to network, and I personally think that’s great. Letting the newbies getting right into the thick of things is what’ll let them get to know the game.

As far as newbies in a warring environment– especially when they’re a combat main– if they’re new and they don’t know what to do, and they’re in your clan, your division, under your command, it’s your job as your -character- to train them and better them. It’s your responsibility as a superior officer to give them the tools they need and the advice that most players take for granted so that way they can become better players. We all started somewhere, don’t disown the newbies just because they don’t happen to know everything yet.

The gist of it is this: If you don’t like newbies in your clan, go and make your own damn clan and set your own damn limits. Don’t force it on everyone else.

Obviously Fishy and I are the only people who see any sense in this idea (With the exception of possibly Kora) so whatever. I give up and retract it since no one gets what I was trying to state. Enjoy your clans and in the future, I’ll enforce my standards. So whatever.

We’re simply saying that you shouldn’t have to force recruitment restrictions on clans… especially since 99% of the TRUE newbies will gravitate towards clans in order to learn the game. Forcing all clans to enact level restrictions only serves to handicap true newbies in favor of those who have been around longer.

As someone whose job it has been to stand up for the newbies and help them out, I am dead set against it. Make it a PLAYER choice, not a code choice. Choices in the players’ hands are good things 90% of the time, and clan operation should be left up to the players.

I can support something like this if it’s a setting that can only be modified by a clan leader like locking the clan funds. If the clan recruitment is newbie-restriced, only players level 100+ can be inducted, otherwise, anyone can be inducted (with respect to multi-clan rules and all).