Clan Limits

I agree with the plan.

Four capital ships for all clans as a base fleet, one ship for every planet under their control regardless of whether or not they’re a major or minor clan. Not only will this level the playing field, but it will also increase roleplay on ships. More often than not we have slicers with 100+ piloting levels flying a second fleet, when they -should- be on a ship using their main skills while the fleet is helmed by a pilot. I believe this plan will help make this a reality, and hopefully increase participation in ship battles outside of flying the ships.

The only possible downside I can see is a clan suddenly being screwed because they don’t have a friendly engineering firm (due to a war with a clan allied with them, or whatever). I’m wondering if we can make it easier for clans to purchase capital ships and have them stored on their pad. It makes sense that if you can make the credits that you should be able to fortify your forces for future fights.

As for the stockpiling idea, it looks like the general consensus is that a clan can only have four stored on their main clan landing pad at any point in time. This would give incentive for enemy clans to raid their base to cut off their ship reinforcements.

This would require IMM oversight since there’s no way to hardcode this in, but if we limit each clan to one storage pad it would be (fairly) easy to monitor.

Would that affect engineering firms with cruiser prints building backstock?

so would cruisers be able to land on these storage pads then after completion at an engi firm or how would they be transferred there?

I like the idea of having ships stored at your clan(for raiding purposes). I think it’s lame when engi clans get slagged for supplying ships to both sides so this way they could build them quick and get them out of there base. Fleets being reduced to less extreme numbers for majors is also a great idea. Like Paco said it would be nice to see support people gunning/jamming versus heading up a second fleet.

>>Would that affect engineering firms with cruiser prints building backstock?

No, this is strictly for the number of ships a clan has deployed in space, not how many they have in a garage/space station/etc.

I don’t think this will magically fix every problem, but it will definitely even the major vs minor playing field on a battle to battle basis

It would be pretty awesome to see approved minors be able to capture, too

Doesn’t this change kinda lock new players out of the opportunity to become experienced with battlegroup commands and master the mechanics of space combat?

I assume that major clans will have a veteran player with space combat experience who will fill the “admiral” roll. Any major clan who does not have one active, experienced player who has an alt that can provide fleet support will be severely handicapped in their capability to PvP.

Space combat, like ground combat, is complex and diverse on LOTJ. The best way for new players to become mechanically proficient at space combat is going to be by learning the ropes from a veteran player (just like ground combat).

With the previous model, a veteran player who is a space combat expert in a major clan had an incentive to either (a) find another veteran “admiral” to command the second battlegroup or (b) train someone new to command the second battlegroup.

This new system creates an environment in which the veteran “admiral” is encouraged to either (a) sit on the flagship with the new guy and babysit/micromanage or (b) simply run the operation themselves and not give the new guy any hands-on experience.

E.g. before, the vet could say “Take your battlegroup in, bombard the planet so our ground guys can capture, DON’T blow up the unmanned defending ships because capitalrules, and watch the shields on your outer ship as the defenders hit it”. The veteran would take in his battlegroup and do the same. He could watch the new guys group, make sure he wasn’t screwing anything up.

Now the veteran admiral would have to sit on the flagship with the new guy. The vet is going to be much more likely to step in and take over if a mistake is made, instead of helping the new guy correct
his error. If the new guy makes a really bad mistake, the operation is completely botched. Most importantly, the veteran has to put himself at risk – he’s gotta be on the same flagship as the newb to try to correct any problems, so he’s vulnerable to the newb getting him killed.

I feel like this sort of change will make it harder for new people to get into the battlegroup game.

If the major only had one planet I see that being a thing. Typically though they own enough planets that this would still allow them to field multiple battle groups. There are definitely other ways to protect your planets from pirates than just parking your most important ships over them, too.

@Wash you happened to have stumbled upon something I have been thinking and talking for kind of a long time: how to get more players involved in space combat.

This new system creates an environment in which the veteran “admiral” is encouraged to either (a) sit on the flagship with the new guy and babysit/micromanage or (b) simply run the operation themselves and not give the new guy any hands-on experience.

I don’t think this is the case. that was already the status quo.

E.g. before, the vet could say “Take your battlegroup in, bombard the planet so our ground guys can capture, DON’T blow up the unmanned defending ships because capitalrules, and watch the shields on your outer ship as the defenders hit it”.

More often than not, this just didn’t happen that much. If it was part of a military operation to support your clan members, I think naval commanders are just not going to trust what they perceive to be a non-navy veteran to do it.

You’ve identified a pretty big issue I have with LOTJ in terms of not trusting newer/newish/people who aren’t known naval experts/etc. with the fleets, but I’m not sure the best way to solve it. I don’t think this is going to make it worse. This is definitely something I have a lot of thoughts about and would love to see loosened up a bit so if you have any more idea or input definitely throw them out there.

simulators that let everyone get experience would help

The lower numbers might actually encourage a battlegroup being ran by more than just one person @Wash. You definitely have a very good point and I’m impressed with your early understanding with how naval matters typically work.

Historically the fleet is ran by an experienced player mostly because capital ships are so expensive and difficult to replace and probably the biggest military asset a clan has.

I imagine the smaller number of ships providing more opportunity for a battlegroup to have a pilot in each ship, rather than one main pilot micromanaging the full battlegroup.

On a whole, I’m excited to experiment with these changes and see what the results are. I think this is a great change or, at the very least, a great experiment for how capital ships and battlegroups are managed.

I think 3 instead of 4 makes just enough difference that you’ll get multiple battlegroups. Each clan gets 1 3 ship battlegroup, correct? So Majors don’t get 6 to start?

@Brendo: My understanding is that it’s just 3 base ships across the board with 1 additional ship per planet.

If a major starts with three worlds they can field 2 fleets off the bat