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March 7, 2010 at 11:21 pm #1407
Majority of LOTJ combatants tote around a repeater with a lockpick set, or double blades.
I feel that weapons need to be rehashed again so that there are different tactical advantages to using different weapons. A larger viable variety to players would benefit the MUD’s gameplay greatly. As it stands: We have two useful types of weapons, and a bunch of antiques lying around. There’s very little balance.
This might work like a rock/paper/scissors fashion, where one type of weapon is better than another, but always weak to a different type of weapon. Right now we have:
Blasters: Repeaters/Rifles/Pistols – These have been split into categories for some weird reason. People still only use Rifles if they’re going for Snipe, and though you can only dual wield pistols – they’ve been completely forgotten save for prop use on non combat characters.
Blades: Blades are good right now. With makeblade you can pretty much turn it into anything, anyway. A club, cane, a bladed guitar…
Force Pikes: One of the coolest weapons in Star Wars, and they’re virtually nonexistant. You’ll see them for sale everywhere. You won’t ever see them in a serious combat situation. The biggest problem is VS blades: Just take the dual wield for extra HR/DR.
So there needs to be a compensation or extra incentive for players to use these. The obvious and realistic solution would be its improved reach, but that won’t help a MUD much past not having to approach people to stab them.
Bowcasters: These are great wookiee weapons, but like forcepikes, they’re utter garbage. I think Wookiees actually just use makeblaster to fashion bowcasters now. Why should these be any worse than actual blasters? There is a makebowcaster.
Unarmed: Right now, the only reason to use this is desperation. Certain grappling moves, and holds should be introduced that can only be used in combat if you’re unarmed. It should be customized for the defensive fighter that wants to defeat his opponent without mauling him.
I know this has been brought up before, but I’m bringing it up again.
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March 8, 2010 at 12:36 am #13463"Altrez":1b76g16c wrote:Unarmed: Right now, the only reason to use this is desperation. Certain grappling moves, and holds should be introduced that can only be used in combat if you’re unarmed. It should be customized for the defensive fighter that wants to defeat his opponent without mauling him.[/quote:1b76g16c]
My biggest problem with unarmed is this: Much like in the real world, weapons are used to augment combat abilities, meaning you’re pretty much invariably better off with a weapon than without. That means, in a combat situation, if you’re unarmed and your opponent has a shotgun, you’re going to be trying to get it away from them. Disarm only working if you’re holding a weapon makes unarmed combat completely useless, in my opinion — not only are you at a serious disadvantage, but you don’t have a way to even the odds. Give disarm a higher fail rate if you’re unarmed, that makes sense, but don’t make it auto-fail.
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March 8, 2010 at 6:44 am #13464
[img:13en2zjj]http://www.darthsanddroids.net/comics/darths0233.jpg[/img:13en2zjj]
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March 8, 2010 at 12:04 pm #13465"Kora":2rkgylqc wrote:"Altrez":2rkgylqc wrote:Unarmed: Right now, the only reason to use this is desperation. Certain grappling moves, and holds should be introduced that can only be used in combat if you’re unarmed. It should be customized for the defensive fighter that wants to defeat his opponent without mauling him.[/quote:2rkgylqc]
My biggest problem with unarmed is this: Much like in the real world, weapons are used to augment combat abilities, meaning you’re pretty much invariably better off with a weapon than without. That means, in a combat situation, if you’re unarmed and your opponent has a shotgun, you’re going to be trying to get it away from them. Disarm only working if you’re holding a weapon makes unarmed combat completely useless, in my opinion — not only are you at a serious disadvantage, but you don’t have a way to even the odds. Give disarm a higher fail rate if you’re unarmed, that makes sense, but don’t make it auto-fail.[/quote:2rkgylqc]
I’ve been suggesting ‘advanced disarm’ — allow someone to disarm with no weapon wielded — as a combat feat for months now.
On bowcasters: I disagree. Since Lydor changed their code up a while back they are a -lot- more useful – slightly fewer attacks but a higher damage output than blasters means you can get away with using one in a combat scenario.
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March 8, 2010 at 3:11 pm #13466"Ralen":14snj7y5 wrote:slightly fewer attacks but a higher damage output[/quote:14snj7y5]
The amount of attacks per round with a repeater still far outweigh a bowcaster for damage per round, if perhaps the bowcaster could be used for sniping(haven’t tested this, flame me if it can) would make it far more useful what with having the higher damage cap per shot. Although i’m still of the mind that bowcasters shouldn’t be useable by anyone that isn’t of equal or greater size to a Wookiee. As i understand it the crappy shop bought bowcaster is better than any possible player made bowcaster.
I do believe numerous people have commented on the Unarmed skillset in the past, a damage boost to gouge and kick if no weapons are held would be adequate, nothing too overpowering to make a unarmed combatant viable against an armed and armoured foe.
Along the lines of pistols, i don’t think i’ve heard of anyone actually taking the dueling feat, lets be honest, its sort of pointless. Whynot change it to a ‘dual pistol’ feat. Bring its level upto 65-75 to make sure its a semi combatant orientated feat, but that level also makes it a good choice for people who aren’t going to get blaster mastery and still want to use something different than a repeater for weapons outfitting, not just to look pretty. A limit of three shots per round(What with second attack not working on the offhand blaster for some reason) it still keeps it in line and under a repeater for damage output while giving people something different to use.
Lastly, forcepikes… What is there to say but that they suck absolute ass. They’re meant to be able to stand upto a lightsaber but they suck even at that. These things need a thorough revamp. A no approach to hit would be nice, if not a bit overpowered. But thats balanced by the whole one pike and 2 attacks a round deal. They need to do more damage than a vibro blade, have a small parry chance and survive about 2-5 parries from a lightsaber before they break.
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March 8, 2010 at 3:20 pm #13467
Bowcasters are great. Forcepikes being able to attack without being approached? I’m torn on the idea. I think weapons are in a pretty comfortable place right now and I’m hesitant to rock the boat. The only thing I’d like to see (even though it would destroy balance) is Teras-kasi.
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March 8, 2010 at 5:54 pm #13468"SgtFlippy":okb0p4he wrote:it still keeps it in line and under a repeater for damage output while giving people something different to use.
[/quote:okb0p4he]Fail. The point of any QQ fest–sorry, "discussion"–about repeaters being the standard (they should be; check EU) is to equalize the options. Simply making alternates slightly less shitty won’t count; players will, and do, go for what’s best.
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March 8, 2010 at 6:23 pm #13469
I’ve suggested a couple of times that we take a page from KotoR and give smugglers a bit more combat prowess when using pistols, etc.
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March 9, 2010 at 12:09 am #13470
Well RJ, the whole idea was to make everything less shitty. EU or not i don’t really give a shit, i want to use something besides a repeater. It gets boring when every man and his dog has nothing but a repeater. Its a game and choice is the spice of life. Whats the point of having any of these other weapons even in game if "its EU so we have to do it" is the theory behind it. Just because the large portion of -army/combatant- people in EU used Repeaters doesn’t mean there wasn’t Magnaguards and shit toting forcepikes, Wookiees using bowcasters and Echani or Palawa people being quite effective at unarmed combat.
If you read my post more carefully you’ll notice how I do make the point of the Repeater being the bee’s knee’s and that everything in the end should come off second best for damage per round(Though i wouldn’t be against equalizing them all). It doesn’t mean wanting weapons and items that are clearly not upto par to not be used because they aren’t even worth the encumberance cost.
PS, I want flame throwers and rocket launchers to be made, area of effect but varying degrees, you can snipe with a flamer and anything upto 2-3 rooms between you and target gets cooked for a bit(400-500ish, timer between shots), the rocket launcher could be a one room explosion which is sniped from a decent distance and does slightly more than the flamer to the target but surrounding people take grenade type explosion damage(300-400).
Oooh, i won’t even start on about some sort of net-gun, could tie in with slippery and work with struggle, more or less be a remote grab with a super crappy bind type effect, holding a knife increases the struggle chance.
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March 9, 2010 at 12:56 am #13471
Nobody is forcing you to use a repeater. And what you need to take into consideration is that number-crunching PKers will quickly and easily determine what of the new options is the best course, and we’ll have the exact same situation we do now… except there’ll be more names of items out there.
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March 9, 2010 at 5:34 am #13460
One quick fix then, everything is redone; they all do the same amount of attacks, the same amount of damage and have nothing special about them. Sorta takes the fun out of weapons doesn’t it.
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March 9, 2010 at 6:38 pm #13474
To me, the biggest issue isn’t that repeaters are the whoopass stick of LOTJ…its the fact that everyone and their mom can use them so early (I didn’t say well)
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March 9, 2010 at 7:49 pm #13476"RenegadeJedi":2njvczve wrote:The point of any QQ fest–sorry, "discussion"–about repeaters being the standard (they should be; check EU) is to equalize the options. Simply making alternates slightly less shitty won’t count; players will, and do, go for what’s best.[/quote:2njvczve]
Okay, so RJ makes a valid point. Soldiers in the EU who can use a repeater do, because they’re… "the whoopass stick", as Puma said. But that’s the other thing — not everyone can use a repeater. Repeaters are huge blasters, much heavier than a pistol, even heavier than two pistols. (Seriously… [color=blue:2njvczve][u:2njvczve]look[/url:2njvczve][/u:2njvczve][/color:2njvczve] at them.) A strength limit on repeaters like the one on bowcasters would make sense, but probably wouldn’t effect many people (what with STR gear and cybers) unless it was as high as the bowcaster one. …Though that would, at least, stop child characters from being able to wield repeaters, which makes no sense whatsoever.
Anyway, part of using a heavy weapon is taking a hit to accuracy because the blaster is harder to control. I remember when blasters were first split there was talk of repeaters being less accurate than pistols, but I haven’t seen any evidence of that. Make repeaters extremely inaccurate with only the "blaster" skill, moderately inaccurate with "advanced blaster" and only really a decent weapon if the wielder has "blaster mastery". That’d make a repeater an illogical choice for somebody who isn’t a soldier, as it should be, and the most powerful form of blaster, and therefore the most logical choice, for somebody who IS a soldier, again, as it should be.
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March 9, 2010 at 7:58 pm #13477
Kora… Why? Making these weapons useless without mastery is redundant. People without mastery do not win fights (unless they’re beating up engineers or really awful players, in which case they could just as easily do it with a datapad).
Why are people so upset with the status quo? I guarantee that a good player could easily kill people with any weapon in this game and likewise, good players understand that there’s more to combat than draw repeater, murder, flurry.
Hell, it isn’t even that effective…
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