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January 13, 2008 at 6:41 pm #433
Basically, these would all be feats. When you learn them, they’d be at a low percentage (1-10%?). No datachips/ways to adept besides actually doing them. It would be nice if you’d get more experience from actually doing it in combat situations and not just training drills.
The Ackbar Slash was a space warfare tactical maneuver devised by Admiral Ackbar. It involved one side’s ships forcing their way into the middle of an enemy formation. The desired result was that, with enemy gunners running a high risk of shooting their own forces, they would be hesitant to fire. The other side would have no such risk, and be able to cause higher damage to their enemy. If the enemy ships did choose to fire, the risk of them hitting each other still worked to the advantage of the attacking fleet. In addition, the enemy ships in this situation could usually bring no more than half of their weapons to bear, while nearly all of the weapons on the ships executing the Ackbar Slash could be used, as there would be enemies on both sides to target.
Slashing the deck was a tactical maneuver used against enemy capital ships by the Dark Lord Kaan at the First Battle of Ruusan. The technique involved any number of smaller ships, usually ranging for snubfighters to corvettes, that would fire all guns while cutting in along a vector that minimized the amount of guns the enemy capital ship could bring to bear against them. When the enemy capital ship tried to change direction to bring more guns about, the smaller ships would pivot and double back for another pass along a different vector to inflict even more damage. However, the tactic focused heavily on the element of surprise and was almost useless if the enemy could call upon the support of other ships.
The Tallon Split was a tactical maneuver designed by Rebel military instructor Adar Tallon, after whom it was named. The maneuver was theoretically simple, but took a great amount of skill, precision, and concentration to execute correctly. When applied successfully, the Tallon Split would allow two starfighters to inflict a considerable amount of damage on an unsuspecting capital ship. The tactic called for two starfighters to fly extremely close together as they approached a capital ship, so close that the larger ship’s targeting computer would detect the two fighters as one approaching ship. At very close range, the two fighters would split apart: one fighter would continue on a strafing run of the capital ship, while the second would draw fire away from the first. The attacking fighter would have about five seconds to cause damage on the capital ship before it was clearly identified as a second ship. Even so, those five seconds would allow enough time to cause serious damage to the larger vessel.[3]
The Tallon Roll was a starfighter maneuver designed by and named after Adar Tallon. This difficult tactic was performed when an attacking starfighter pilot became aware of the possibility of overshooting a breaking target. The pilot would level out, pull up hard, then roll away from the direction of the turn. To complete the maneuver the attacking pilot would have to slide in behind his target, thus effectively altering the angle of approach without losing distance or speed. This maneuver was difficult to counter as it took place in the typical starfighter pilots’ blind spot; at the same time the maneuver itself was difficult to accomplish without the attacker becoming disoriented himself, thus making him overshoot and possibly a target himself.[6]
Pioneered by Garm Bel Iblis, this strategy required a number of large starfighters to mask the approach of smaller starfighters or missile weapons behind them, then moving out in what appeared at first glance to be a flanking attack, wrong-footing the gunners of enemy point defense weapons to allow the force approaching behind the large starfighters to slip through the enemy’s defenses, often allowing the smaller fighters or missiles to inflict critical damage to the enemy.
An "Alpha Strike" was a term used with large starships with multiple weapons emplacements. The idea was to fire all weapons at the same spot, at the same time, to cause optimum damage. This could make a blast far more powerful then what any one weapon could do. An example of a ship prime for this tactic would be a star destroyer. Its angle, arrowhead design made the Alpha Strike perfect for the ship. The reasoning was to destroy the enemy ship immediately, before it could fire, as to not prolong the battle. The only problem with this was that if the opening salvo didn’t get past the opposition’s shields, then the "alpha strike" ship would be defenseless for a period of time. The aggressive nature of the Empire made this tactic very popular amongst the Imperial fleets. Many others also employed this technique, such as the Yuuzhan Vong.
Named after Wraith Squadron pilot Garik Loran who developed the tactic. Specifically the tactic was used with the CR90 Corvette Night Caller. The Loran Spitball was a quick way for the corvette, which housed nine X-wings in a bow hold, to launch their missiles at an enemy from within the ship. By lowering its bow shields and opening the hangar doors, the X-wings could target whatever enemy the ship was facing and launch their barrage. This was used effectively as a surprise attack on two occasions for the Wraiths.
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January 13, 2008 at 7:14 pm #4243
I think these would work better as skills, but with the same ideal. You can’t learn about them after 15% in any way other than actually doing them.
Putting in that many maneuvers as feats, would limit every pilot to having just one mastered. A good pilot, in time, would learn all of those.
Now I say as feats, only one will be learned, because no one will skip taking evasion. No one who wants to be useful as a pilot anyway.
Good ideas, but as I said. Skills would be far more practical.
Note: I still say we need a break tractor lock skill/feat.
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January 13, 2008 at 10:03 pm #4247"k12yptic":270zg3y8 wrote:I think these would work better as skills, but with the same ideal. You can’t learn about them after 15% in any way other than actually doing them.
Putting in that many maneuvers as feats, would limit every pilot to having just one mastered. A good pilot, in time, would learn all of those.
Now I say as feats, only one will be learned, because no one will skip taking evasion. No one who wants to be useful as a pilot anyway.
Good ideas, but as I said. Skills would be far more practical.
Note: I still say we need a break tractor lock skill/feat.[/quote:270zg3y8]
The idea would be that not every pilot can master every manuever, that they’d have to pick and choose. For this to work best we’d need more feats that had a variety of (USEFUL) results. If every pilot can learn every manuever and (more importantly) adept it, they start to lose their meaning. At that point it isn’t a question of "which manuever(s) should I learn?" but "what order should I grind manuevers to adept them"
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January 14, 2008 at 5:51 pm #4261
Yeah, this is true.
My point was that with only 2 feats to pick from, no one’s going to say, "I’d rather have maneuvers than evasion." But, if we were given more than a couple feats, It’d be sweet.
I’d just like to have more than one feat to choose from the Piloting options.
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January 21, 2008 at 6:32 pm #4368"Walldo":1qo7r02z wrote:Basically, these would all be feats. When you learn them, they’d be at a low percentage (1-10%?). No datachips/ways to adept besides actually doing them. It would be nice if you’d get more experience from actually doing it in combat situations and not just training drills.
The Ackbar Slash was a space warfare tactical maneuver devised by Admiral Ackbar. It involved one side’s ships forcing their way into the middle of an enemy formation. The desired result was that, with enemy gunners running a high risk of shooting their own forces, they would be hesitant to fire. The other side would have no such risk, and be able to cause higher damage to their enemy. If the enemy ships did choose to fire, the risk of them hitting each other still worked to the advantage of the attacking fleet. In addition, the enemy ships in this situation could usually bring no more than half of their weapons to bear, while nearly all of the weapons on the ships executing the Ackbar Slash could be used, as there would be enemies on both sides to target.
Slashing the deck was a tactical maneuver used against enemy capital ships by the Dark Lord Kaan at the First Battle of Ruusan. The technique involved any number of smaller ships, usually ranging for snubfighters to corvettes, that would fire all guns while cutting in along a vector that minimized the amount of guns the enemy capital ship could bring to bear against them. When the enemy capital ship tried to change direction to bring more guns about, the smaller ships would pivot and double back for another pass along a different vector to inflict even more damage. However, the tactic focused heavily on the element of surprise and was almost useless if the enemy could call upon the support of other ships.
The Tallon Split was a tactical maneuver designed by Rebel military instructor Adar Tallon, after whom it was named. The maneuver was theoretically simple, but took a great amount of skill, precision, and concentration to execute correctly. When applied successfully, the Tallon Split would allow two starfighters to inflict a considerable amount of damage on an unsuspecting capital ship. The tactic called for two starfighters to fly extremely close together as they approached a capital ship, so close that the larger ship’s targeting computer would detect the two fighters as one approaching ship. At very close range, the two fighters would split apart: one fighter would continue on a strafing run of the capital ship, while the second would draw fire away from the first. The attacking fighter would have about five seconds to cause damage on the capital ship before it was clearly identified as a second ship. Even so, those five seconds would allow enough time to cause serious damage to the larger vessel.[3]
The Tallon Roll was a starfighter maneuver designed by and named after Adar Tallon. This difficult tactic was performed when an attacking starfighter pilot became aware of the possibility of overshooting a breaking target. The pilot would level out, pull up hard, then roll away from the direction of the turn. To complete the maneuver the attacking pilot would have to slide in behind his target, thus effectively altering the angle of approach without losing distance or speed. This maneuver was difficult to counter as it took place in the typical starfighter pilots’ blind spot; at the same time the maneuver itself was difficult to accomplish without the attacker becoming disoriented himself, thus making him overshoot and possibly a target himself.[6]
Pioneered by Garm Bel Iblis, this strategy required a number of large starfighters to mask the approach of smaller starfighters or missile weapons behind them, then moving out in what appeared at first glance to be a flanking attack, wrong-footing the gunners of enemy point defense weapons to allow the force approaching behind the large starfighters to slip through the enemy’s defenses, often allowing the smaller fighters or missiles to inflict critical damage to the enemy.
An "Alpha Strike" was a term used with large starships with multiple weapons emplacements. The idea was to fire all weapons at the same spot, at the same time, to cause optimum damage. This could make a blast far more powerful then what any one weapon could do. An example of a ship prime for this tactic would be a star destroyer. Its angle, arrowhead design made the Alpha Strike perfect for the ship. The reasoning was to destroy the enemy ship immediately, before it could fire, as to not prolong the battle. The only problem with this was that if the opening salvo didn’t get past the opposition’s shields, then the "alpha strike" ship would be defenseless for a period of time. The aggressive nature of the Empire made this tactic very popular amongst the Imperial fleets. Many others also employed this technique, such as the Yuuzhan Vong.
Named after Wraith Squadron pilot Garik Loran who developed the tactic. Specifically the tactic was used with the CR90 Corvette Night Caller. The Loran Spitball was a quick way for the corvette, which housed nine X-wings in a bow hold, to launch their missiles at an enemy from within the ship. By lowering its bow shields and opening the hangar doors, the X-wings could target whatever enemy the ship was facing and launch their barrage. This was used effectively as a surprise attack on two occasions for the Wraiths.[/quote:1qo7r02z]
maneuver*
Just because SWR fails, doesn’t mean you have to, too. <!– s:-( –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt="
" title="Sad" /><!– s:-( –>Other than that, overall good points. Some being far easier to adapt to SWR than others (the "Loran Spitball" being easier than the "Ackbar Slash," which would require a previously-uncoded logical change to the coordinate code, allowing for fire to be directionalized, instead of merely targeted at someone in range, regardless of their relative position; if this change were made, I’d suggest an entire overhaul of the coordinate system to allow for more realistic use of weapons, gravity wells, and cloaking devices–weapons continuing if they miss, to possibly hit other ships that are nearby/on the same co-ord/in the same battlegroup, gravity wells being able to pull ships out of hyperspace, cloaking devices being able to be "circumvented" if the ship doesn’t move after the ship cloaks up, etc).
As for specifics…
"Slashing the decks" – IMO, not feat-worthy. Could simply involve a vast accuracy penalty for cappies firing at small ships at the same co-ords; a smaller penalty for cappies -> middies, or middies -> fighters.
"Alpha strike" – Easily feat worthy, but I wouldn’t make it a skill. Simply, have it be an attack the drains all charge from a ship, and fires 1 shot per turbolaser at the target.
"Loran spitball" – Depending on how Rojan/Lydor/Madon coded it, could either be easily glitched (using TIEs or other suitablely cheap craft that are not outfitted with projectile weapons), or mightly difficult to code (if the individual ammo capacities, projectile tube numbers, et al, of the ships in the hangers were considered).
The "Ackbar Slash" – I doubt this can be done without an overhaul of the coordinate system (i.e. allowing missed shots to continue to hit things in their LoF).
"Tallon Split"/unnamed Garm Bel Iblis strategy – They are effectively the same strategy: a ship in front hides something behind it; the ship in front boogies out and takes the enemy fire with it, allowing the previously-covered ship to crack some skulls. However, the only way I could think of these working is it the battlegroup code were modified to allow for individual starfighter squadrons, and their ilk, lead by a similiarly-sized ship; this feat would allow a single ship to take the fire of the entire battlegroup, provided they’re on the same co-ordinate, and there is only one enemy (or mult. enemies on the same co-ord). A similiar strategy to this, albeit designed for protection instead of the concealment of an attack, is the idea of "shield trios," shown in use by Republic pilots in the NJO series: a group of three pilots would switch off, with the front of the triangle taking the brunt of the fire, and the sides allowing their shields to regen–it works much like the "flying V" of Geese, etc. does.
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January 23, 2008 at 5:55 am #4428
I think you’d need to open at least one more feat slot then for pilot mains to make this viable, in my opinion.
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January 23, 2008 at 6:05 am #4431
The number of feats you can learn is somewhat irrelevant for this discussion, as even the help file says "the limit will change to be dynamic’
I’m more interested in feedback on the actual feats, not implementation feasibility.
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February 1, 2008 at 3:00 pm #4617
Unless you’ve suddenly gained the ability to code and debug said code, Walldo, the only way ideas from the FORUMS are ever going to be implemented is if their feasability is proven beyond a doubt.
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February 1, 2008 at 4:37 pm #4620
Oh gee thanks for telling me what my thread is about RenegadeJedi, I didn’t realize how wrong I was.
[b:1pjehi65]I’m more interested in feedback on the actual feats, not implementation feasibility.[/b:1pjehi65]
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February 1, 2008 at 6:02 pm #4624"Walldo":18kym9ya wrote:Oh gee thanks for telling me what my thread is about RenegadeJedi, I didn’t realize how wrong I was.
[b:18kym9ya]I’m more interested in feedback on the actual feats, not implementation feasibility.[/b:18kym9ya][/quote:18kym9ya]
I think they are good Walldo. Don’t listen to the douchefaggery.
I actually really like that idea with the Loran Spitball. It would be really neat to be in your ship, launch a barage, then fly on out to whoop some ass. Also, with this, maybe have more dynamics with hangar doors, such as when the doors are open, the possibility of incoming fire damaging ships?
Alpha Strike. I really like the idea, because it should be able to be done by ship pilots. One thing, as far as effectively "1 shotting" a ship, that wouldn’t be very kosher to the Pbase. I know that I personally would hate to see a corvette and an ISD jump in system, in my neutral territory, I’m sitting there on my cruiser or whatever, I get spitballed, shields are mostly gone, then one shotted by the ISD. Might be a bit too powerful, who knows. Maybe make it /only/ take down shields or something, or take a flat percentage from the current stats on the ship. Good idea though.
That’s about all the time I go for right now, but those were also the feats that stood out in my mind.
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February 2, 2008 at 2:01 am #4633"Kage":3all09ve wrote:Alpha Strike. I really like the idea, because it should be able to be done by ship pilots. One thing, as far as effectively "1 shotting" a ship, that wouldn’t be very kosher to the Pbase. I know that I personally would hate to see a corvette and an ISD jump in system, in my neutral territory, I’m sitting there on my cruiser or whatever, I get spitballed, shields are mostly gone, then one shotted by the ISD. Might be a bit too powerful, who knows. Maybe make it /only/ take down shields or something, or take a flat percentage from the current stats on the ship. Good idea though.[/quote:3all09ve]
Kage has a point but the damage could be worked out from the amount of ships in the hangar, the size of the hangar is the limiting factor.
Something along the lines of the old scramble command without the ships actually launching, but slaving their projectile targeting systems onto the homeship and just being able to fire missiles/torpedos/rockets like normal.Another idea would be to just have a ‘salvo’ feat, two ways to look at it. Either you fire all projectiles the vessel has or perhaps have the pilot be able to fire as many projectiles as the ship has tubes? To counter the obvious destructive potential of this feat, it could be weighted out with the chance that your can misfire,a misfire would result in the projectile exploding in the tube, damaging the launcher and the ship thus reducing the size of the salvo and making it a tactical choice that you could indeed blow yourself up.
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