Legends of the Jedi Forums The Brainstormtorium Lightsaber Combat Styles

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This topic has 14 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 5 months ago by Quicksilver.
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    • Skitter Member
      January 5, 2009 at 12:36 am #929

      Lightsaber Style
      – Some of the descriptions will be copied and pasted from Wikipedia, because I can’t be arsed to type that much to explain what each form does in theory.

      [b:wlm60bi5]Command(s):[/b:wlm60bi5]

      Stance (lightsaber form number / name)

      This is used to change lightsaber style in combat, some situations require different attack or defence and these options will allow a jedi / sith to adapt to those situations. There are also some examples of how the emote could occur to let your opponent know you have changed stances.

      [b:wlm60bi5]Anakin Skywalker changes his stance, appearing more (defensive / aggressive / balanced)[/b:wlm60bi5]

      This will keep your oponent guessing, although if a Jedi or Sith have a stance at 100% adept, the emote could read:

      [b:wlm60bi5]Anakin Skywalker changes his stance, adopting the Shii-Cho stance[/b:wlm60bi5]

      As you are adept at this stance, you can easily identify when it is used by others.

      [b:wlm60bi5]Form 0[/b:wlm60bi5]
      Developed my Master Yoda, the art of resolving a situation by not drawing one’s lightsaber, all Jedi slowly progress in this form while they do not have a lightsaber wielded, the gain is EXTREMELY gradual and will take a VERY LONG time to adept, once adepted, it increases a Jedi’s maximum force points (that’s just an idea for an advantage, it can obviously be changed)



      [b:wlm60bi5]Form 1 – Shii-Cho[/b:wlm60bi5]

      [b:wlm60bi5]Effect:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      Balanced gain to both defence and attack

      [b:wlm60bi5]Strong Against:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      None

      [b:wlm60bi5]Weak Against:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      None

      As the weapons technology of the lightsaber was developed, the need for a form of combat arose. Thus Form I, also called Way of the Sarlacc, was born. Shii-Cho was the most ancient style of lightsaber combat, developed by early jedi masters to incorporate key principles of ancient sword -fighting traditions. Existing as the simplest form even four thousand years before the battle of Yavin, Shii-Cho was among the many forms known to the Jedi, including Kreia and the Jedi Exile. Due to its simplicity, it was often the first form taught, so almost all lightsaber duelists included some aspect of Shii-Cho in their swordplay.



      [b:wlm60bi5]Form 2 – Makashi[/b:wlm60bi5]

      [b:wlm60bi5]Effect:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      Slight loss of damage, gain to hit chance

      [b:wlm60bi5]Strong Against:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      Djem So

      [b:wlm60bi5]Weak Against:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      None

      After Form 1’s proliferation as a lightsaber combat technique, Form II came about as a means of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. It was described as being very elegant, powerful, and requiring extreme precision, allowing the user to attack and defend with minimal effort, while his opponent tires himself out, often wielding the blade one-handed for greater range of movement and fluidity. The form relied on parries, thrusts, and small, precise cuts—as opposed to the blocking and slashing of the other forms. Form II countered Sun Djem, the goal of early Form I masters, by being well trained in prevention of disarming and weapon destruction.



      [b:wlm60bi5]Form 3 – Soresu[/b:wlm60bi5]

      [b:wlm60bi5]Effect:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      Large increase in deflecting blaster fire, enables deflected blaster bolts to have a chance of returning to the shooter, large increase in defence, large loss of damage and chance to hit

      [b:wlm60bi5]Strong Against:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      None

      [b:wlm60bi5]Weak Against:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      None

      Originally, Form 3 was developed as a counter to blaster weapons used by multiple opponents. Due to the rise in distribution of blaster weapons, more and more Jedi were forced to adapt a fighting style which allowed them to combat enemies firing from several directions, mostly basing their "attack" on redirected blaster fire. Previous styles had allowed wide, sweeping strokes which left the Jedi open to blaster fire. Form 3, however, required maintaining a constant shield of deflective strokes by making short, quick sweeps, close to the body, leaving the Jedi less exposed to ranged fire. Form 3 was the most defensive of the seven forms.



      [b:wlm60bi5]Form 4 – Ataru[/b:wlm60bi5]

      [b:wlm60bi5]Effect:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      Drains force while being used, when force points run out stance is immediately chanced to form 1. large increase on chance to hit, small increase in damage

      [b:wlm60bi5]Strong Against:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      None

      [b:wlm60bi5]Weak Against:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      None

      Ataru was an aggressive combat form relying on a combination of power, strength, and speed. Practitioners of Ataru were always on the offensive, attacking with wide, fast, and powerful swings. Form IV practitioners constantly called upon the Force to aid in their movements and attacks. By allowing the Force to flow throughout their body, they could overcome their physical limitations (including old age, as was the case with Master Yoda) and perform amazing feats of acrobatics, such as somersaults and backflips, not only for attack, but also to evade the attacks and strikes of their opponents.



      [b:wlm60bi5]Form V – Djem-So[/b:wlm60bi5]

      [b:wlm60bi5]Effect:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      Large increased to damage when 1 person in the room (not including you), decrease in chance to hit when more than 1 person in the room.

      [b:wlm60bi5]Strong Against[/b:wlm60bi5]
      None

      [b:wlm60bi5]Weak Against[/b:wlm60bi5]
      Makashi

      Djem So was the creation of a group of Form III masters who felt that Soresu was too passive. It addressed the shortcomings of Form III, in which a Jedi Master may have proved to be unbeatable but was likewise unable to overcome a skilled opponent. Utilizing a combination of blocks and parries, a Djem So user maintained a proper foundation in terms of defense against both ranged and melee attacks. While a Soresu user stayed on the defensive, however, and only counterattacked when necessary or when an opening appeared in his opponent’s defense, a Djem So practitioner was not nearly so passive. Immediately after defending against an opponent’s strike, a Djem So stylist would follow with an attack of their own, bringing the force of the opponent’s own blow against them and seeking to dominate the duel. Djem So placed a heavy focus on brute strength and pure power, with wide, powerful strikes and parries followed immediately by counterattack. One of the characteristic moves of Djem So was an overhand power blow downward upon an opponent, the lightsaber held firmly in both hands.



      [b:wlm60bi5]Form VI – Niman[/b:wlm60bi5]

      [b:wlm60bi5]Effect:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      Damage decrease when subjected to force powers, slight increase in defence from blaster fire.

      [b:wlm60bi5]Strong Against[/b:wlm60bi5]
      None

      [b:wlm60bi5]Weak Against[/b:wlm60bi5]
      None

      Form VI attempted to balance all elements of lightsaber combat, combining the techniques from Forms that came before into a less intensely demanding combat style. In practice, Form VI was a combination of older forms (Forms I, III, IV, and V), and all of them in moderation. In the blending, much of the individuality was lost, but the strengths were spread evenly, and there was little weakness in it. Due to its "jack-of-all-trades" nature, the success of this form was largely dependent on the practitioner’s intuition, improvisation, and creativity in combat rather than the rote responses derived from other forms. This broad generalization made Form VI well suited for diplomats, as they could spend their time training in the areas of politics and negotiation instead of combat training.

      Niman was not, however, a weak form. While many other lightsaber forms bolstered the wielder’s abilities in one area, while leaving him vulnerable in others, Niman was capable in all situations but had no dramatic strengths. It provided no edge in battle, but achieved its worth in not leaving its wielder as exposed as some of the more aggressive forms. Its strength was its balance. The form was also considered a basis for more ‘unorthodox’ fighting, as Jedi who used it were less frequently using automatic reflex than constantly thinking and often had time to invent unusual strategies for combat. It also provided a decent defense versus enemy Force powers and blaster fire.


      Form 7 – Vaapad

      [b:wlm60bi5]Requires:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      Adept in Form 1
      Adept in Form 4

      [b:wlm60bi5]Effect:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      Force alignment drops towards the dark side while in use, drain of force points while in use, very large increase in damage, large increase in chance to hit.

      [b:wlm60bi5]Strong Against:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      None

      [b:wlm60bi5]Weak Against:[/b:wlm60bi5]
      None

      The most challenging and demanding of all forms, Form VII required intense focus, a high degree of skill, and mastery of other forms. Only two Jedi ever mastered Vaapad fully: Mace Windu and Depa Billaba. Sora Bulq helped Windu develop Vaapad, but Bulq proved unable to master the flow of the light and dark sides of the Force generated by the use of the technique, and fell to the dark side. Sora instructed Quinlan Vos in a few of its basics. Mace noted that Vaapad mastered Bulq, not the other way around. Depa Billaba, Windu’s padawan, similarly fell to the dark side when the Vaapad mindset, combined with the horrors of the war, drove her insane. General Grievous used his technical prowess to copy Vaapad to a degree when he fought Windu on Coruscant, though due to his lack of Force sensitivity, he could not truly master it. But it was possible that Grievous had already learned the moves of Juyo, as Dooku noted that Grievous and his guards mastered all the seven classic combat forms.

    • Avanga Member
      January 5, 2009 at 12:54 am #8754

      I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again. The last people who need more attention are Forcers. It’s a cool system, but balancing something of this caliber would take a lot of time and effort that could go towards improving any number of things. I’ve got no problem with it being a backburner project, but for the time being… bigger fish to fry.

    • Ralen Keymaster
      January 5, 2009 at 12:59 am #8756

      Canonically, most Jedi practised -one- lightsaber stance, or two, and stuck with them. It’s only LotJ Jedi that know every intricacy of every lightsaber stance ever known to man by early knight-level. Whilst it sounds a good system, it’s probably not wise to codedly reinforce the delusion. :p

    • Drel Member
      January 5, 2009 at 4:19 am #8757
      "Ralen":2y1a91vq wrote:
      Canonically, most Jedi practised -one- lightsaber stance, or two, and stuck with them. It’s only LotJ Jedi that know every intricacy of every lightsaber stance ever known to man by early knight-level. Whilst it sounds a good system, it’s probably not wise to codedly reinforce the delusion. :p[/quote:2y1a91vq]
      QFT.
      I also demand a "tl;dr" version.
      Seriously, though, Ralen got it in one. A long time ago, there was a big brainstorming session on this, among some RPC, builders, etc.
      I could pull the notes, but I’m too lazy; basically, the only thing accurate in your entire post was the "aggressive / balanced / defensive" bit talking about Help-I-Can’t-Act Christensen’s character.
      …and that was as UNIVERSAL combat styles, not anything forcer specific (because things like medical, etc. need work long before forcers do; if forcers got any work, I’d recommend an overhaul of the SPELLS years before I’d recommend an overhaul of the current skills; even then, this would just be a stopgap measure, just like feats are, when a full overhaul would really be needed for anything approaching EU accuracy).
    • Corey Participant
      January 5, 2009 at 4:23 am #8760
      "Avanga":360j2qlz wrote:
      I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again. The last people who need more attention are Forcers. [/quote:360j2qlz]

      I both agree and disagree. The reason I agree is that you never want to focus on something that will only affect the smallest % of players. I however disagree in the sense that there is a lot that needs to be worked on regarding Forcer skills/spells. Most people never get a chance to play a Forcer and those that do get to, often don’t even survive long enough to get to play around with most of the skills/spells to actually even see how broken many are.

      As far as the idea goes, I’d like to see the "aggressive", "defensive" and "neutral" stances added…but the concept could be added to combat in general to be honest.

    • RebornSinner Member
      January 5, 2009 at 4:26 am #8761

      I agree, they don’t need alot of attention.

      My Jedi Rply has one form mastered and knows a good deal of another, and that’s it, but really it’s only used as RP, which I’m fine with.

    • Drel Member
      January 5, 2009 at 4:26 am #8762
      "xpuma20x":1lw7nvbb wrote:
      "Avanga":1lw7nvbb wrote:
      I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again. The last people who need more attention are Forcers. [/quote:1lw7nvbb]

      I both agree and disagree. The reason I agree is that you never want to focus on something that will only affect the smallest % of players. I however disagree in the sense that there is a lot that needs to be worked on regarding Forcer skills/spells.

      As far as the idea goes, I’d like to see the "aggressive", "defensive" and "neutral" stances added…but the concept could be added to combat in general to be honest.[/quote:1lw7nvbb]

      QFT (v. 2.0).
      Seriously, though, the entire system of Force levels is wack. Two words prove I’m right: Corran fucking Horn.
      Luke acknowledged that he was more powerful than the average Jedi, and on top of it, the BEST mind manipulator he’d ever seen (and Ben Kenobi and Palpatine were both very, very good, according to EU). Yet, he couldn’t even lift a rock unless he was being blasted by scaldingly-hot water / blaster bolts / his own lightsaber.
      Try and do something like that using the current force system, barring imms restricting access to a skill or two for that player.

      Oh, and because I finally bothered to fully read the post, I call bullshit. Vaapad != Form 7. Form 7 = Juyo. "Vaapad" was the renamed, rediscovered version that Mace Windu utilized, but the original form was called Juyo and was used before and after Windu’s time. IMO, way to fuck history up, Jedi Archivists.

      EDIT: Honestly, the only thing approaching a "form" that I’d like to see put in, and quickly, would be Trakata: force powers get increased when you turn off your lightsaber. Granted, that would require the code be changed to allow lightsabers to be turned on and off (or the holster time decreased for force users). Alternatively, the first attack from a freshly-lit lightsaber should give bonus damage for somebody with the Trakata skill/feat (if it’s not just a latent bonus programmed in to make force-only combat more legit).

    • Skitter Member
      January 5, 2009 at 12:46 pm #8764

      In response to the "its not form 7" thing, I know Juyo was the standard, but after careful consideration I believed that Vaapad was something that Jedi could work towards mastering, Juyo was an offensive style but there are already styles to cater to that, yet no skill that seriously meats out some powerful attacks unless you venture dangerously close to the dark side, in short, instead of adding a standard 7th stance I simply opted for something that can make people say "wow, you know your stuff", Vaapad isn’t without it’s drawbacks, but Juyo would almost be a completely pointless stance without modifying it heavily, in which case, it’s only going to be considered Vaapad anyway.

    • Drel Member
      January 8, 2009 at 8:06 pm #8790
      "Skitter":2vfou27u wrote:
      In response to the "its not form 7" thing, I know Juyo was the standard, but after careful consideration I believed that Vaapad was something that Jedi could work towards mastering, Juyo was an offensive style but there are already styles to cater to that, yet no skill that seriously meats out some powerful attacks unless you venture dangerously close to the dark side, in short, instead of adding a standard 7th stance I simply opted for something that can make people say "wow, you know your stuff", Vaapad isn’t without it’s drawbacks, but Juyo would almost be a completely pointless stance without modifying it heavily, in which case, it’s only going to be considered Vaapad anyway.[/quote:2vfou27u]
      Logic fail.
      If that’s true, then we should JUST have Juyo, Shii-Cho, and Soresu–Aggressive, Balanced, and Defensive.
      ALL of the forms had their advantages and disadvantages, and they’re all unique (well, with the exception of the Diplomat’s Style, I guess); that’s sorta the point.
    • Skitter Member
      January 9, 2009 at 11:16 am #8795

      Even bigger logic fail.

      You have any idea how long it would take to actually code specific advantages and disadvantages for every style in regards to other stuff? I stuck to blasters and person count because it should be quite simple, having simple aggressive / balanced / defensive styles would be retarded, because almost every forcer would go aggressive for the damage potential alone. Vaapad is something that would require a stupid amount of style masters and skill, and has serious disadvantages, but the damage is unmatched by any other style.

    • Gathorn Participant
      January 9, 2009 at 5:13 pm #8797
      "Skitter":4vy7t23n wrote:
      Even bigger logic fail.

      You have any idea how long it would take to actually code specific advantages and disadvantages for every style in regards to other stuff? I stuck to blasters and person count because it should be quite simple, having simple aggressive / balanced / defensive styles would be retarded, because almost every forcer would go aggressive for the damage potential alone. Vaapad is something that would require a stupid amount of style masters and skill, and has serious disadvantages, but the damage is unmatched by any other style.[/quote:4vy7t23n]

      All the damage in the world wouldn’t help you if your to-parry and dodge tanked because of the side-affect of aggressive, and in a saber fight…Parry and dodge are what keep you alive.

    • Drel Member
      January 9, 2009 at 9:21 pm #8799
      "Gathorn":2himkj7k wrote:
      "Skitter":2himkj7k wrote:
      Even bigger logic fail.

      You have any idea how long it would take to actually code specific advantages and disadvantages for every style in regards to other stuff? I stuck to blasters and person count because it should be quite simple, having simple aggressive / balanced / defensive styles would be retarded, because almost every forcer would go aggressive for the damage potential alone. Vaapad is something that would require a stupid amount of style masters and skill, and has serious disadvantages, but the damage is unmatched by any other style.[/quote:2himkj7k]

      All the damage in the world wouldn’t help you if your to-parry and dodge tanked because of the side-affect of aggressive, and in a saber fight…Parry and dodge are what keep you alive.[/quote:2himkj7k]
      Aye, dodge and parry FTW.

      Ok, and Skitter, you completely forgot that the recoding of the avdam code (which would have to be done for ANYTHING approaching your Failpad form 7) would likely take far longer than another form or four.

      You also forgot that, at its heart, LotJ is a D20 RPG. A lot of things that would be "difficult to code" are, in fact, not. To counter a point of yours, specific weapon advantages aren’t that hard to do; heck, I could think of several ways that would just take builder commands. If you type aff by, you’ll see a small chart; on that, check out "Resistances" and "Suscepts." While it could be potentially confusing, a so-called "hard to code" stance (i.e. Soresu, which was highly effective against blasters) could be done with a few resistances (while it was mentioned as good against blasters, other ranged weapons, such as bowcasters, would be included; granted, I’m not sure what damage type bowcasters are); alternatively, another "hard to code" stance, Mikashi, which was notoriously INEFFECTIVE against blasters, could be done with a few suscepts.

      Of course, that’s not to mention that regardless if it’s Vaapad or Juyo, it WOULDN’T add damage. +Hit and +attacks per round, sure–but never more damage. A lightsaber hit is a lightsaber hit; only the user’s relative skills determines if they gouge the guy or just nick him; whether he’s fighting defensively or offensively has no difference.

      Furthermore, the Aggressive style that was thought out also had nothing to do with damage. It would increase hr and dr (simple enough compared to avdam–skills can already do this), attacks per round, and ability to hit, in exchange for drained mv, and lowered ability to dodge, parry, and disarm. For forcers, aggressive would also increase senses and decrease foresight; defensive would do the opposite.
      Forms would be semi-permanent (in that you couldn’t change them in the middle of a fight), but we’d toyed with a possible combat skill that would let you change forms and also somehow distract your opponent (it never got far in the discussion, so I don’t remember any specific benefits).

      Oh, and just because I can, "bigger logic fails" typically involve fails in logic (by the by).

    • RebornSinner Member
      January 10, 2009 at 7:24 pm #8809
      "Skitter":1jhoa52u wrote:
      … almost every forcer would go aggressive for the damage potential alone. …[/quote:1jhoa52u]
      Not true
    • Quicksilver Participant
      January 11, 2009 at 8:19 am #8811

      There really is way too much that affects larger portions of people that requires attention over something like this. That being said, I like the aggressive/balanced/defensive stance idea for all combatants. A little touchup like that could make worlds of difference to the combat system. Then again, we already have some skills that can cause style-like effects. You just have to be creative with it.

      Cellphone ranger, out.

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