Legends of the Jedi Forums The Brainstormtorium Let’s talk about smuggling
This topic has 25 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 2 months ago by rakun.
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    • Slyth Member
      October 10, 2009 at 3:39 am #11832
      "RenegadeJedi":jjk6daq5 wrote:
      "Slicerin_Craft":jjk6daq5 wrote:
      I have a few suggestions that would improve a few things in game through use of smuggling skills.

      1.) Makebinding:
      Just a skill to make bindings. Smugglers would know their way around them fairly well, being able to escape fairly quickly from them, so it would make sense for some smugglers to make some bindings.

      2.) Fakesale:
      Allow players to fakesale an item to spicers/other players. They would need the spice, and if they failed, then they would end up giving the real item to person, if they succeeded, the item the player/spicer received would be a copy(generated item into $n ‘s inventory), and would disappear in 30 minutes(could use a cookie, and restrict the fakesale cookie to a immortal create spice that can be generated). Smugglers should be able to directly cheat someone out of an item, without stealing it, so the player can’t find them a few seconds later and kick their ass.

      3.) Breakdown:
      Allow a master smuggler to break down an item into some components that were used in the item. like if it was a repeater, it would break down into one of each of the required items, though all gems will be lost in the process.

      4.) Reroute:
      If A master smuggler uses this, they get additional more speed and hyperspeed for a short period of time. kinda like how navigator gives you the ability to travel farther, this would give you the ability to travel faster.

      5.) Sticky fingers:
      Allow a player to steal one item from a vendor per day. This wouldn’t be able to be used for blueprints, but it could be used on player owned shops(just something to raise the desirability of the class).

      6.) DisguiseItem:
      Allow a smuggler to change the look(name) of an item. This would be useful for a smuggler doing crimes on a planet, since it would be much harder to see what they are using.

      7.) Mask:
      Allows a smuggler to mask another player through applying the disguise to the other player.

      Not sure if these are good, Just figured I would put in a few suggestions. I know that some of this would need to be coded, not sure if that mattered or not though.[/quote:jjk6daq5]
      A lot of those are illogical or just plain idiotic. For one, breakdown as a SMUGGLING skill? "Fuck no" sums it up; engineering (or science) if anything. Ditto for makebinding (but engineering or BH, not science). Some others (e.g. "mask") have been suggested before–being able to disguise other players is a logical extension of being able to disguise yourself (probably easier to do, from an IRL standpoint).

      HOWEVER, there are a few that are genuinely unique. Fakesale and sticky fingers, while unique, are far too open to abuse for implementation, IMO. Fakesale is almost designed for it, considering there’s no "sale" system for use with other players, so its only use would be for abusing pawn shops. Sticky fingers, on the other hand, could MAYBE–MAYBE–be put in if it were limited to, say… 1 theft per shop, not 1 per day. If you found an active, competent engineer, you could be "making" upwards of 100,000 per day, near instantly.

      Now, you’ll probably notice I’ve left out two: reroute and mask. I’d say "no" to reroute on the same basis as breakdown and makebinding–it should be a piloting feat, it anything; the only "piloting" feat I’d like to see for smuggling is something that lets them jump to hyperspace closer to gravitational fields than other pilots (100 units closer, or some such). As for mask… I saved it for the end because I’m 110% behind that. It could potentially be abused, yes, but no more so than "makecontainer" can–for the exact same use.[/quote:jjk6daq5]

      Well, you could have a time limit on how long masking works, have it like an affect, where you are disguised by someone else, for so many rounds.

      As for makebinding, I was thinking about it for engineering, but look how many engineering skills we already have. Honestly, some engineer skills should be other class skills in my opinion.

      Anyhow, I can give reason for breakdown. People see it all the time in movies, where the badass can take apart a gun and stuff, so when I looked at it, I was thinking that breakdown would normally suit the personality of a smuggler, where he could steel your weapon, and break it down in front of you so you know you can’t use it anymore. limiting it to weapons would make sense, and when you think about it, a smuggler should know his way around a weapon as well as an engineer does.

      As for fakesale, there is a sale system in, you just don’t directly see it constantly. it happens when you trade a droid. it says the amount it will give to the other player, and take from you. with that same system, you could sellspice/fakesale spice, which even though it could be abused, if it was high end, it would be logical since a smuggler is usually in it for himself.

      the 24 hour wait period is something I wasn’t too keen on, since I usually play an engy, or at least have a shop, maybe 1 item per vendor is better, since there is limited amount of vendors(for the most part anyways)

      Reroute… well, I wouldn’t mind it going piloting if it was in, but I was thinking smuggling because if you are pirating a ship, changing the power levels of speed/hyperspeed would be extremely useful.

    • Xaleron Participant
      October 10, 2009 at 4:12 am #11835

      We’ve seen some similar things to the ‘fakesale’ idea, specifically in shops… Back before you could see what type of item it was, people would make datachips and other expensive stuff that were actually, say, containers… This is also REALLY easy to do outside of using a vendor (since it shows the itemtype now and you don’t see that doing a roleplayed sale), making dummy items that look like the real deal, etc. I’ve done it a lot. So I don’t see any real reason to put in a command to let you scam people when you can do it yourself, and if we DID have a transaction thing in-game the only people who would probably use it would be people who are scamming… Too easy to detect.

      Scammer: ‘Oh, hey lets use the new sale system!’
      Buyer: ‘…No. How about I just drop the credits, you drop the item, and we go our separate ways?’
      Scammer: ‘I HAZ BEEN FOILED AGAIN!’

      Breakdown is a really good idea, but has been discussed at great length as an engineering and/or science skill/feat. It’s been generally agreed that it needs to be very nerfed, where you end up scrapping some of the items and 100% of the time destroys the item… Making it expensive to buy, breakdown, buy, breakdown, etc, someone’s items.

      As an alternative to that, how about a ‘drainweapon’ skill for smugglers? The thing you said about some slick smuggler guy taking your weapon and stripping it down to being useless would be neat, but if we had ‘drainweapon’, they could simply empty the weapon’s power cell. Nothing to stop it from being re-loaded, of course, but why would a smuggler be able to take someone’s weapon apart to a point that they couldn’t put it back together? I think draining it would be a nice, somewhat common and low-ish level skill for smugglers that would actually be quite entertaining if not all that useful, admittedly.

      Reroute, I sort of support but think it’s sort of been suggested as a kind of ‘overdrive’ skill/feat that lets a smuggler temporarily increase either the speed or maneuver of a ship to help them outrun people. This seems more logical for smugglers to be able to do than them getting a re-named pilot feat. Smugglers get a boost to piloting anyway, so those that are really good pilots as well as smugglers could theoretically pick up the navigator feat (although it would have to be, and probably should be, lowered a bit).

      Sticky fingers revamp? No thank you. Maybe if it only worked on cheap mob-store items or something.

      Disguiseitem, again is something I think should be thought out a bit more and IMO put as an engineering or science skill/feat. Only to avoid everyone running around in the same generic HR/DR/HP/WHATEVER boosting eq just to be able to be effective. Maybe something like an expansion of ‘restring’, or just a separate skill alltogether that will permanently change what an item looks like, and puts the old item name into it’s description so you can still see what item it was changed from by examining said item.

      Mask, yeah, but maybe just expand the disguise skill or perhaps turn it into a feat to disguise someone else. As was pointed out, it would be theoretically easier to disguise someone else (way easier to apply camouflage facepaint, for example, to someone else than to yourself). On that note, disguising yourself should require a mirror!

    • Drel Member
      October 10, 2009 at 3:03 pm #11838
      "Slicerin_Craft":ktwb6soi wrote:
      Well, you could have a time limit on how long masking works, have it like an affect, where you are disguised by someone else, for so many rounds.
      [/quote:ktwb6soi]
      Uh… why? You’re still disguising them manually; it’s not some magic spell that wears off.

      "Slicerin_Craft":ktwb6soi wrote:
      As for makebinding, I was thinking about it for engineering, but look how many engineering skills we already have. Honestly, some engineer skills should be other class skills in my opinion.
      [/quote:ktwb6soi]
      Just because it shouldn’t be engineering doesn’t mean it should be smuggling; as I said before, if you follow the "whoever uses it the most, gets it" logic, then it should be a BH skill. The same logic that puts makebinding as a smuggling skill would put makemedmac as a combat skill, etc.

      "Slicerin_Craft":ktwb6soi wrote:
      Anyhow, I can give reason for breakdown. People see it all the time in movies, where the badass can take apart a gun and stuff, so when I looked at it, I was thinking that breakdown would normally suit the personality of a smuggler, where he could steel your weapon, and break it down in front of you so you know you can’t use it anymore. limiting it to weapons would make sense, and when you think about it, a smuggler should know his way around a weapon as well as an engineer does.
      [/quote:ktwb6soi]
      Those badasses would normally be combat mains, or at the very least combat trained; moreover, the ability to field strip a weapon (an easily-trained skill, albeit a bit time-consuming for the masses of different weapons in IRL, let alone EU) does not constitute the ability to actually reverse-engineer something–that same soldier would be completely stumped if asked to field strip, say… a datapad.

      "Slicerin_Craft":ktwb6soi wrote:
      Reroute… well, I wouldn’t mind it going piloting if it was in, but I was thinking smuggling because if you are pirating a ship, changing the power levels of speed/hyperspeed would be extremely useful.[/quote:ktwb6soi]
      Again, that’s pretty damn faulty logic; just because it would be "useful" doesn’t mean it should go in (or else 150 smuggling would get a "teleport" skill, 150 BH get an "instastun" skill, etc.).

      "Xaleron":ktwb6soi wrote:
      We’ve seen some similar things to the ‘fakesale’ idea, specifically in shops… Back before you could see what type of item it was, people would make datachips and other expensive stuff that were actually, say, containers… This is also REALLY easy to do outside of using a vendor (since it shows the itemtype now and you don’t see that doing a roleplayed sale), making dummy items that look like the real deal, etc. I’ve done it a lot. So I don’t see any real reason to put in a command to let you scam people when you can do it yourself, and if we DID have a transaction thing in-game the only people who would probably use it would be people who are scamming… Too easy to detect.

      Scammer: ‘Oh, hey lets use the new sale system!’
      Buyer: ‘…No. How about I just drop the credits, you drop the item, and we go our separate ways?’
      Scammer: ‘I HAZ BEEN FOILED AGAIN!’
      [/quote:ktwb6soi]
      Completely agreed. Again: its only use would be to abuse pawn shops.

      "Xaleron":ktwb6soi wrote:
      Breakdown is a really good idea, but has been discussed at great length as an engineering and/or science skill/feat. It’s been generally agreed that it needs to be very nerfed, where you end up scrapping some of the items and 100% of the time destroys the item… Making it expensive to buy, breakdown, buy, breakdown, etc, someone’s items.

      As an alternative to that, how about a ‘drainweapon’ skill for smugglers? The thing you said about some slick smuggler guy taking your weapon and stripping it down to being useless would be neat, but if we had ‘drainweapon’, they could simply empty the weapon’s power cell. Nothing to stop it from being re-loaded, of course, but why would a smuggler be able to take someone’s weapon apart to a point that they couldn’t put it back together? I think draining it would be a nice, somewhat common and low-ish level skill for smugglers that would actually be quite entertaining if not all that useful, admittedly.
      [/quote:ktwb6soi]
      On a related note, I’ve noticed that quite a few of the people arguing for the random destruction of at least one item in a blaster (funny that other items, like datapads, vibroblades, or grenades are never discussed) play engineers. Bias much?
      As for drainweapon, I’d be very hesitant to agree with that; it’s a cool idea in theory, but it wouldn’t amount to much (if you’ve already got their weapon, you’ve won more than likely), and I’d also argue it would be more of a combat skill than a smuggling skill. Now if you had invertpowercell (basically, turning a blaster into a grenade), I’d be all for it being a smuggling skill–or espionage.

      "Xaleron":ktwb6soi wrote:
      Reroute, I sort of support but think it’s sort of been suggested as a kind of ‘overdrive’ skill/feat that lets a smuggler temporarily increase either the speed or maneuver of a ship to help them outrun people. This seems more logical for smugglers to be able to do than them getting a re-named pilot feat. Smugglers get a boost to piloting anyway, so those that are really good pilots as well as smugglers could theoretically pick up the navigator feat (although it would have to be, and probably should be, lowered a bit).
      [/quote:ktwb6soi]
      If you look at LotJ’s history and the current smuggling skillset, smugglers have ALWAYS been a non-piloting main (that is, their bonus to piloting is the LotJ adaptation of EU smugglers being, on the average, excellent pilots); I really don’t see a reason to change this, outside of a FEW things that smugglers practiced being able to do with a ship that regular pilots didn’t (as much, at least)–like running blockades, ditching pursuers, etc.

      "Xaleron":ktwb6soi wrote:
      Sticky fingers revamp? No thank you. Maybe if it only worked on cheap mob-store items or something.
      [/quote:ktwb6soi]
      It would have to have a credit limit, then, because mob-store only means that smugglers would just get free cybernetics.

      "Xaleron":ktwb6soi wrote:
      Disguiseitem, again is something I think should be thought out a bit more and IMO put as an engineering or science skill/feat. Only to avoid everyone running around in the same generic HR/DR/HP/WHATEVER boosting eq just to be able to be effective. Maybe something like an expansion of ‘restring’, or just a separate skill alltogether that will permanently change what an item looks like, and puts the old item name into it’s description so you can still see what item it was changed from by examining said item.
      [/quote:ktwb6soi]
      That would be awesome, but I still support smuggling getting some iteration of this skill–maybe a temporary version that doesn’t require a workshop, but can be broken via search <item>, or some such?

      "Xaleron":ktwb6soi wrote:
      Mask, yeah, but maybe just expand the disguise skill or perhaps turn it into a feat to disguise someone else. As was pointed out, it would be theoretically easier to disguise someone else (way easier to apply camouflage facepaint, for example, to someone else than to yourself). On that note, disguising yourself should require a mirror![/quote:ktwb6soi]
      +1 on the mirror limitation
    • Gathorn Participant
      October 10, 2009 at 6:30 pm #11842
      "Avanga":9dq8fbg3 wrote:
      Once again, I have actively smuggled those items past certain mobs in the game for XP.

      You receive 9500 experience for smuggling A Gamorrean hunting rifle.
      You have now obtained smuggling level 26!
      Your gain is: 260 credits.

      The problem is, most guards aren’t properly set to recognize smuggling items.[/quote:9dq8fbg3]

      I stopped here because, the blasters work, AVanga, but they stopped working, there are several planets that have guard mobs flagged properly. One day the blasters worked, the next they didn’t. Unless you can show something recent(The past week, maybe two at most), I’m inclined to believe you levelled on them before the rifles broke.

    • Avanga Member
      October 10, 2009 at 7:01 pm #11843

      I’ll give it a try again when I get home.

    • Avanga Member
      October 12, 2009 at 3:39 pm #11908

      Sorry it took so long but yes, I can still smuggle Gamorrean rifles. I just did it. I stand by my statement, there is something wrong with 98% of the customs mobs on the game.

    • Gathorn Participant
      October 15, 2009 at 3:21 pm #12006

      That’ what was needed to be confirmed. Thank you, Avanga.

    • Kyntomies Member
      December 2, 2009 at 10:25 pm #12764
      "Eddy":2l4iqn8i wrote:
      How about changing the name of the skillset from smuggling to something else, given that the skills only vaguely have something to do with smuggling.[/quote:2l4iqn8i]

      Yeah… I dont think that they called Han Solo a smuggler because he was constantly walking at the spaceports with hundreds of jungle machetes in his dewback backpack…

      It should have something to with flying cargo and stuff. Illegal cargo you can buy from some planets and sp on… And transfer those custom agents into space and orbits…

      Oh yeah. And how about chance of getting busted?

    • Drel Member
      December 3, 2009 at 3:30 am #12771
      "Kyntomies":3g4cnssy wrote:
      "Eddy":3g4cnssy wrote:
      How about changing the name of the skillset from smuggling to something else, given that the skills only vaguely have something to do with smuggling.[/quote:3g4cnssy]

      Yeah… I dont think that they called Han Solo a smuggler because he was constantly walking at the spaceports with hundreds of jungle machetes in his dewback backpack…

      It should have something to with flying cargo and stuff. Illegal cargo you can buy from some planets and sp on… And transfer those custom agents into space and orbits…

      Oh yeah. And how about chance of getting busted?[/quote:3g4cnssy]
      An emphatic +1
      Smuggling should be far less ground-based than it is. In EU, it was rare for smugglers to even bother with traditional ports of entry(with guards capable of giving smuggling EXP for, you know, smuggling)… they would normally just get through system and/or orbital policing and defenses, then fly to some sekrit rendezvous point on the planet to meet up with the person they’re delivering to.

    • rakun Participant
      February 24, 2011 at 1:59 pm #16850

      Just an idea about smuggling, and possibly a way to level up smuggling.

      Although it’s true that people rarely do embargos, the clan leaders or planetary leaders should be able to outlaw certain resources, spice for example.

      Smugglers should be able to sell resources during embargos, or outlawed resources, for 30 to 50 credits per unit. It is possible to set the price to that limit, of that I’m 100% sure.

      It would be, possibly, a high level smuggler level or feat. The downfall would be similar to that of pirateship – maybe an alert if the spaceport he/she is at will post an alert message to the governing clan. Of course, imo, the smuggler should be able to sell it in time to escape, or have some kind of another skill that would help him run through a blockade.

      Selling such illegal cargo could give lots of experience, although it’d be better as around level 100 skill for that matter. After all, smugglers smuggle mostly for the credits.

      A pilot should also be able to check for cargo with 50+ sensors.

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