Illegal Perms: How should we handle the permer?

Should we punish the permer? At what point should we do this? I can personally understand if a player has an illegal perm or two on their record. Sometimes, you get caught up in the heat of the moment, but 3 or 4? More?

What should we do about people who perm others illegally, and bog our system down with the red tape that they ultimately produce?

I suggest point fines after 1 or 2 illegal perms. I’d say for severe cases, or when points are not available, removing one of their clones if there is one to be removed.

Sure, they made a mistake and didn’t know or forgot the rule, or as you said Anna, in the heat of them moment. I think 2 warnings should be fine. At the 3rd, reprimand them. Remove their points. If they continue, take more points off and put them in jail for a bit. If they keep doing it, just out right ban that character. If they don’t learn by then, then they are just being a dick and should be banned all together for some time. After that? We just need to get out some baseball bats and do it old school. Go for the knees.

Also, check to make sure that the last perming isn’t one right after the other. If it happened within a weeks time, mark it. They are wasting every bodies time. But if it’s been some time since the last, just restart their count, unless it was a serious offense.

I can’t think of too many more punishments that can be offered unless you add a penalty to their character, but I think that’s unfair in any case.

A lot of people could care less about points. A lot of people know they can create a free character and perm even the most expensive race there is, some people are just that good. I think a 3 strike system is good to start. Sure start off with points, though it has to be enough to actually make them remember it. If the person continues on, I agree that bans should be in place…even if its for small periods of time like a week or so to start.

4:00am. Can’t sleep… coming up with ideas. I can’t tell, in my current state of exhaustion, if they’re good or not.

What if we had a flag to prohibit people from perming? You get so many chances not to fuck up, and then you get slapped with this no perm flag.

Forget clones, forget RPC and IC for the moment… just focus on this one concept.

True, if the player wants to take someone out, they’re going to get their AIM clique on the job. That’s a clear exploit. -Of course, their aim clique would be risking the flag themselves.

Does this idea have any merit?

Even suggesting this in your current state of sleeplessness, I agree in my current state of drunkenness that a no perming flag isn’t a bad idea. I still think the player should get a warning first, possible a reprimand before the flag comes into effect.

Keep in mind, this may allow the person to try to perm just because he knows he won’t have to go through a RPC trail. He knows that the permee will be taken to bacta or what not. Again, if the permer because a dick about "perming" people (even though they are just going to the hospital each time), then the punishments should start to take effect.

I like the idea of the non-perming flag for a permer.

This has always been in place for blatantly illegal perms. The problem is that it has been kind of lax in its enforcement. I am a firm believer that perms that wind up being "Perm them and let the RPC sort them out" should be treated as blatantly illegal perms.

But keep in mind it can also work the other way. I’ve seen people get restored who never, ever, should have. And that’s not rage from not understanding and blah blah blah, that’s from being on the RPC and seeing some really retarded case handling. So, any system that punishes players automatically or according to strict ‘by the numbers’ rules is going to cause an issue there.

In fact, a lot of the attempts to do rules ‘by the numbers’ (you must have 3 of these 5 categories to perm someone, you must have 3 thinklogs about perming this person, your thinklogs about the perm have to be spaced out over at least three days…), have resulted in the awful awful situations and stupid case handling.

Perms that wind up in restores aren’t necessarily illegal perms either. If a perm is going to be judged "illegal," there are usually other circumstances involved such as SpyApp, illegally edited log files, OOC vendettas, what-have-you… all of which carry their own, rather severe, punishments.

Now if a person gets restored and the permer starts going on a killing spree and coming up with lame justifications for each perm, then yes, I do believe action should be taken, but that is up to the RPC to inform the Immortals of what is going on or for the Immortals to actually pay attention to COUNCIL MONITOR, case submissions, and death tallies.

Thanks for your feedback, guys. I’ll let you know what we’ve decided to do with this after the imms have the chance to review it.

Here is what has been decided:

Players who are observed as having too many illegal perms will be given a noperm flag on their account which will prohibit all characters that are associated with the account form perming others.

Players who have a noperm flag may not place a bounty on another player.

Players who have this flag will force every kill into the hospitalization system (as described in Ease of Death/Pkill thread), and the victim will lose their eq, and be subject to a 12-24 hour hp/mv penalty.

This punishment will work like banning. The first offense is 1 month, the second offense is 2 months, the third offense is 3 months, and fourth offense if 6 months.

If a player is unable to perm others within the guidelines of help perm, and we have already tried to flag the account with no perm, then the player will be subject to banning.