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April 15, 2009 at 11:46 pm #1050
"Traveling through hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops, boy!"
There are two primary ideas to this thread
[b:19hs2g19]1) Restricting the ‘hyperspace off’ feature to a high level piloting skill.[/b:19hs2g19]
In canon, randomly dropping out of hyperspace more than likely leave your ship blown up or splattered into a star or something not fun like that. What I propose is that the ability to use ‘hyper off’ be a component of a high level skill in a class like piloting or smuggling.
[b:19hs2g19]2) Comlinks don’t work in hyperspace![/b:19hs2g19]
This is from canon too. Comlink channels like talk and clan would be unaccessible while in hyperspace.
So what do you think?
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April 15, 2009 at 11:49 pm #9767
Maybe code it in so that if you’re near enough to a star or planet, you actually DO die when you drop out of hyper?
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April 15, 2009 at 11:56 pm #9769"Walldo":3fmq04tm wrote:"Traveling through hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops, boy!"
There are two primary ideas to this thread
[b:3fmq04tm]1) Restricting the ‘hyperspace off’ feature to a high level piloting skill.[/b:3fmq04tm]
In canon, randomly dropping out of hyperspace more than likely leave your ship blown up or splattered into a star or something not fun like that. What I propose is that the ability to use ‘hyper off’ be a component of a high level skill in a class like piloting or smuggling.
[b:3fmq04tm]2) Comlinks don’t work in hyperspace![/b:3fmq04tm]
This is from canon too. Comlink channels like talk and clan would be unaccessible while in hyperspace.
So what do you think?[/quote:3fmq04tm]
+1
While I’ve always wanted to see the space code redone to actually have gravity (interdiction fields, natural or otherwise, etc.), that’s a super simple way around it that I didn’t see before. Good call on just making it a skill.As for the comlinks thing: it wasn’t just comlinks. Everything–comlinks, holonet, et al.
There’s a reason Jorus C’boath was such an asset to Thrawn–he was flipping crazy, and all, but he allowed their ships to communicate perfectly in hyperspace, or through cloaks. On that note, do cloaks prevent ranged communication (I can count on my thumb the times I’ve been able to play around with a cloakable ship, and checking realism wasn’t on my priority list during the CG).
"Rojan QDel":3fmq04tm wrote:Maybe code it in so that if you’re near enough to a star or planet, you actually DO die when you drop out of hyper?[/quote:3fmq04tm]
+1
If you wanted to do that, go full out and add in space gravity.While there are already interdiction fields, they’re not exactly accurate. For one, they don’t stop hyperjumps on their frontier. If you just fixed the code for them, making them confined to planets wouldn’t be that big of a deal. Though, on that note, planetary fields should be a bit larger, and ship-mounted fields far smaller–and directional. If you look at EU, interdictors had to actually "aim" their field at their prey. A triangle would probably be pretty hard to code, not to mention system-intensive when used. Maybe something like "interdict (new piloting skill, I guess) <x> <y> <z>," and then the field bubbles everything within so many prox of that spot. It wouldn’t be completely EU-accurate, but it would be a far cry from the "lulz, 10k interdiction field with no work!!!!" bullshit that occurs now.
It’d be a bitch, but not that much more so than what you’d suggested (though, I’m speaking from a math/webcoding background… My C experience involves "Hello, World").
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April 16, 2009 at 4:27 pm #9774
First part seems silly. Intentionally dropping out of hyperspace early may put you in an area you don’t want to be, but it shouldn’t be any direct danger to you. If you were that close to either smack into a planet or get crisped by a star, their mass shadows would have jerked you out before you had the chance to voluntarily drop out.
No comlinks in hyperspace makes sense though.
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April 16, 2009 at 8:22 pm #9777
Yeah, that’s why ships have navcomps — to keep from jumping into a sun. It says as much in ANH.
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April 16, 2009 at 9:47 pm #9779"CruelAngel":s0vcn12j wrote:First part seems silly. Intentionally dropping out of hyperspace early may put you in an area you don’t want to be, but it shouldn’t be any direct danger to you. If you were that close to either smack into a planet or get crisped by a star, their mass shadows would have jerked you out before you had the chance to voluntarily drop out.
No comlinks in hyperspace makes sense though.[/quote:s0vcn12j]
While damage due to collision/radiation/etc. is a legitimate concern (seriously, check the physics–momentum is mass * velocity, and gravity’s a weak force–interdiction fields have a far, far greater effect on outbound jumps, so you could very well get "jerked out" of hyperspace–but not in the normal, decelerating manner… you’d slam into the star at only slightly less than the speed of light), the problem isn’t what happens once you’re there, but how you get there–and how you get out.
The "hyper off" feature is, by its very nature, overriding safety features; those same safety features include an anomaly sensor… without that sensor telling the hyperdrive "oh, shit, time to GTFO," the hyperdrive is likely to break itself trying to struggle into the gravity well. The Bakurans got around this by devising a system that forced their hyperdrive to have a static bubble instead of a flickering bubble (normal hyperdrives flickered the bubble around the ship to save on fuel consumption).
So, now that your hyperdrive is broken, you’re now supposed to navigate out of an unknown area–without any technology.
You can bitch, moan, whine, or whatever, but the simple fact is that navigational computers only used known routes (and, due to the nature of hyperspace, they work like free ways, not country roads–highly rigid entry and exit points). Don’t trust your R2 unit, either; their entire job was to be able to store the bulk of the route in memory and have enough processing power to computer the differing first jump leg based on in-system coordinates–which is exactly what Navicomputers did, too, so you big-ship owners are equally out of luck."Avanga":s0vcn12j wrote:Yeah, that’s why ships have navcomps — to keep from jumping into a sun. It says as much in ANH.[/quote:s0vcn12j]
…that argument would work, if navicomputers were used to plan the revert. With "hyper off," they aren’t.
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April 17, 2009 at 2:51 am #9782
[quote:34yicyvf]
"Avanga":34yicyvf wrote:Yeah, that’s why ships have navcomps — to keep from jumping into a sun. It says as much in ANH.[/quote:34yicyvf]
…that argument would work, if navicomputers were used to plan the revert. With "hyper off," they aren’t.[/quote:34yicyvf]The point is, the navcomp makes sure the ship can travel in a straight line in hyperspace without jumping through anything that would otherwise destroy the ship. Reason stands that you could cut engines at any time and not be dead, because there shouldn’t be anything dangerous between here and there anyways.
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April 17, 2009 at 8:25 pm #9783"Avanga":2czvwf7n wrote:[quote:2czvwf7n]"Avanga":2czvwf7n wrote:Yeah, that’s why ships have navcomps — to keep from jumping into a sun. It says as much in ANH.[/quote:2czvwf7n]
…that argument would work, if navicomputers were used to plan the revert. With "hyper off," they aren’t.[/quote:2czvwf7n]The point is, the navcomp makes sure the ship can travel in a straight line in hyperspace without jumping through anything that would otherwise destroy the ship. Reason stands that you could cut engines at any time and not be dead, because there shouldn’t be anything dangerous between here and there anyways.[/quote:2czvwf7n]
Hyperspace jumps AREN’T in straight lines.
That’s half the problem.
For proof, look at a forest. You can’t stand at the edge of a forest and see all the way through it; there may be many, many small but straight paths, but there isn’t one large straight path (except a road, trail, etc., jackasses). The galaxy is the same way, only with stars/planets/other massive bodies instead of trees.
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April 18, 2009 at 1:30 am #9787"RenegadeJedi":jfn04njb wrote:While damage due to collision/radiation/etc. is a legitimate concern (seriously, check the physics–momentum is mass * velocity, and gravity’s a weak force–interdiction fields have a far, far greater effect on outbound jumps, so you could very well get "jerked out" of hyperspace–but not in the normal, decelerating manner… you’d slam into the star at only slightly less than the speed of light), the problem isn’t what happens once you’re there, but how you get there–and how you get out.
The "hyper off" feature is, by its very nature, overriding safety features; those same safety features include an anomaly sensor… without that sensor telling the hyperdrive "oh, shit, time to GTFO," the hyperdrive is likely to break itself trying to struggle into the gravity well. The Bakurans got around this by devising a system that forced their hyperdrive to have a static bubble instead of a flickering bubble (normal hyperdrives flickered the bubble around the ship to save on fuel consumption).
So, now that your hyperdrive is broken, you’re now supposed to navigate out of an unknown area–without any technology.
You can bitch, moan, whine, or whatever, but the simple fact is that navigational computers only used known routes (and, due to the nature of hyperspace, they work like free ways, not country roads–highly rigid entry and exit points). Don’t trust your R2 unit, either; their entire job was to be able to store the bulk of the route in memory and have enough processing power to computer the differing first jump leg based on in-system coordinates–which is exactly what Navicomputers did, too, so you big-ship owners are equally out of luck.[/quote:jfn04njb]As far as I can tell, once you revert (whether by gravfield or flicking the hyperspace lever off), you revert back to sublight speeds. Normal physics requires an infinite amount of energy to speed up a mass to light speed or beyond, so Star Wars invokes a fictional matter that exists solely beyond lightspeed allowing ships equipped with hyperdrives to break the barrier between sublight and multiples of lightspeed. I believe that means ships either travel at one speed or the other, and nothing in between, otherwise vessels would require immensely powerful braking thrusters to slow them down upon reversion.
That doesn’t mean that suns, planets, blackholes, etc. aren’t hazards but once you’ve plotted a safe course stopping ANYWHERE along that path is safe as well. And yes, hyperspace travel is along a straight line, otherwise you couldn’t match vessels hyperjumps by getting their bearings and jumping along the same one.
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April 18, 2009 at 1:40 am #9788
[quote:31mfq1m1]While generally determined by the distance between two planets, hyperspace travel times between two locations seemingly close to one another could be drastically extended by the need to navigate around stellar hazards, such as asteroid fields and nebulae. [/quote:31mfq1m1]
IE, it’d be fast in a straight line, but since you can’t jump through obstacles, you’ve got to go /around/ them.
I wouldn’t mind seeing space trickier to navigate, in the physical sense. There’s a lot of fun stuff you could play with. If the next TL is going to have more planets, make it so that you can’t jump in a straight line. It’d make traveling trickier, and it’d probably form popular routes, which in turn would make Interdictors crazy useful (if you could make it draw ships out of hyperspace). You could give coded support for navcomps, so ships by default wouldn’t have any preset nav coordinations, and slicers would have something to program/steal from the ships… people would collect systems and routes and stuff. It’d be cool.
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April 18, 2009 at 7:38 am #9790
There needs to be several classes of navicomputer. You need to have the basic which most everyone has, which forces the ship to stick to the hyperspace lanes. And there wouldn’t be lanes between every planet, you’d have to jump between various planets to reach a destination. The second level of navicomputer would allow you to institute navcharts, but no uncharted space. Third level, which would have to be incredibly expensive (Or maybe add a slicer skill to upgrade the navicomps with a bunch of parts? Though it’d need to be at 100% to upgrade to the 3rd level, and extremely hard to get it to 100% at that, to prevent people from just 3rd-classing all ships like they do with MSTR datapads) and be able to travel to uncharted space.
You’d have to reinstitute drifting in case people went out of the trade lanes, so they could look at their map of the galaxy (which I’m assuming someone would make and post somewhere) and make their way back to a trade lane.
This would open up great possibilities for warfare, since the trade lanes could create choke points in the galaxy that make it easy to hold a certain area of it. I.E. Battlefront Conquest style.
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April 18, 2009 at 12:40 pm #9791"CruelAngel":ky04b6pm wrote:"RenegadeJedi":ky04b6pm wrote:While damage due to collision/radiation/etc. is a legitimate concern (seriously, check the physics–momentum is mass * velocity, and gravity’s a weak force–interdiction fields have a far, far greater effect on outbound jumps, so you could very well get "jerked out" of hyperspace–but not in the normal, decelerating manner… you’d slam into the star at only slightly less than the speed of light), the problem isn’t what happens once you’re there, but how you get there–and how you get out.
The "hyper off" feature is, by its very nature, overriding safety features; those same safety features include an anomaly sensor… without that sensor telling the hyperdrive "oh, shit, time to GTFO," the hyperdrive is likely to break itself trying to struggle into the gravity well. The Bakurans got around this by devising a system that forced their hyperdrive to have a static bubble instead of a flickering bubble (normal hyperdrives flickered the bubble around the ship to save on fuel consumption).
So, now that your hyperdrive is broken, you’re now supposed to navigate out of an unknown area–without any technology.
You can bitch, moan, whine, or whatever, but the simple fact is that navigational computers only used known routes (and, due to the nature of hyperspace, they work like free ways, not country roads–highly rigid entry and exit points). Don’t trust your R2 unit, either; their entire job was to be able to store the bulk of the route in memory and have enough processing power to computer the differing first jump leg based on in-system coordinates–which is exactly what Navicomputers did, too, so you big-ship owners are equally out of luck.[/quote:ky04b6pm]As far as I can tell, once you revert (whether by gravfield or flicking the hyperspace lever off), you revert back to sublight speeds. Normal physics requires an infinite amount of energy to speed up a mass to light speed or beyond, so Star Wars invokes a fictional matter that exists solely beyond lightspeed allowing ships equipped with hyperdrives to break the barrier between sublight and multiples of lightspeed. I believe that means ships either travel at one speed or the other, and nothing in between, otherwise vessels would require immensely powerful braking thrusters to slow them down upon reversion.
That doesn’t mean that suns, planets, blackholes, etc. aren’t hazards but once you’ve plotted a safe course stopping ANYWHERE along that path is safe as well. And yes, hyperspace travel is along a straight line, otherwise you couldn’t match vessels hyperjumps by getting their bearings and jumping along the same one.[/quote:ky04b6pm]
Star Wars doesn’t make anything up in this area, really. They’ve just renamed/ignored the real versions.
If you watch the films, notice how the ships actually stretch on entering light speed? Well, in the traditional "let’s just point this ultra-engine in that direction and go faster than light," that doesn’t happen, because accelerating bodies accelerate at the same rate. It is, however, a hallmark of the current, real life theories on going faster than the speed of light: if you compress the space in front of you, and expand the space behind you, you go faster than the speed of light without that pesky infinite energy problem.
Now, think about this: if hyperspace simply is, or isn’t, then how can ships have hyperspace classes? It’s simple–they couldn’t. Hyperspeed, like realspeed, is a simple continuum; the only difference between 2.999999999999×10^8 m/s (a "real space" speed) and 3.000000000001×10^8 m/s (a "hyper space" speed) is the hyperspace-bubble necessity brought on by the infinite energy problem you mentioned.
As for the straight line bullshit, again, they do not travel in straight lines. It’s been said in the books (look at the Coutship of Princess Leia; Luke is mentioned being able to vastly decrease a jump’s time by curving the jump to a greater extent than navicomputers can safely), and physics agrees, too–even light doesn’t travel in a straight line over any astronomically-significant distance.Physics note: the speed of light isn’t exactly 3×10^8; it’s very slightly below that. However, for the sake of simplicity, I assumed it as 3×10^8.
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April 19, 2009 at 10:51 am #9798"RenegadeJedi":24fhw1k8 wrote:Physics note: the speed of light isn’t exactly 3×10^8; it’s very slightly below that. However, for the sake of simplicity, I assumed it as 3×10^8.[/quote:24fhw1k8]
Okay, are you a physics major? <!– s:P –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt="
" title="Razz" /><!– s:P –> I haven’t seen this many big words in Science class.
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April 19, 2009 at 12:39 pm #9799"Sollayla":1sw6fnp6 wrote:"RenegadeJedi":1sw6fnp6 wrote:Physics note: the speed of light isn’t exactly 3×10^8; it’s very slightly below that. However, for the sake of simplicity, I assumed it as 3×10^8.[/quote:1sw6fnp6]
Okay, are you a physics major? <!– s:P –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt="
" title="Razz" /><!– s:P –> I haven’t seen this many big words in Science class.[/quote:1sw6fnp6]
No, I’m not a physics major.
…and what big words? "Simplicity?" SERIOUSLY?
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April 20, 2009 at 3:06 pm #9807"RenegadeJedi":3cbj3s6l wrote:"Sollayla":3cbj3s6l wrote:"RenegadeJedi":3cbj3s6l wrote:Physics note: the speed of light isn’t exactly 3×10^8; it’s very slightly below that. However, for the sake of simplicity, I assumed it as 3×10^8.[/quote:3cbj3s6l]
Okay, are you a physics major? <!– s:P –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt="
" title="Razz" /><!– s:P –> I haven’t seen this many big words in Science class.[/quote:3cbj3s6l]
No, I’m not a physics major.
…and what big words? "Simplicity?" SERIOUSLY?[/quote:3cbj3s6l]
Read the whole thread. <!– s:P –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt="
" title="Razz" /><!– s:P –>
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