Hidden Planets

We had a nice discussion last evening about hidden planets. Now, they are required for some clans
when they are starting up, and for some other clans if they are remaining secret or what not, however
the discussion centered around if they should remain hidden indefinitely. There were a lot of great
ideas concerning this, and I want to share a few of them here. I’d love to see what you guys think
and if there are any new ideas.

Have a time limit! A clan that requires a hidden system is told in the very start that they have a certain
amount of time to get ready before the system they are in become unhidden. This will force an upstart
clan to really push to get to the point that they can survive with some of the larger clans out there.

Have tasks that need to be accomplished! This idea is another that goes along with the time limit idea. If
a small clan needs to keep their hidden planet then they have to do stuff to keep it! Be it taking planets or
some other task, this forces the clan to go do things and not become stagnant. The other thing this does is
gives the larger clans something to do while they are waiting for the clan to emerge.

Those were the two main ideas I saw. Some people are against hidden planets, but personally I think they have
a good purpose. The new clans that are going to be part of all the conflict need a place to start up. The issue
that I have and some other people as well is that these upstart clans can hide on their little world(s) pretty
much indefinitely. Give your ideas on this subject and let’s see if we can find a way to come up with a better
solution than what has happened in the past.

I am definately not a fan of hidden worlds myself. I disagree with a time based limitation though because honestly sometimes clans, specifically Imperial ones, get really powerful and it may take longer to become strong enough to challenge them, while other clans can be fought much sooner. I’d suggest limitations on what a clan with a hidden system for a capitol can do…however. Deny them the ability to be a major clan on a hidden world, and deny them the ability to declare war on other clans. (Allow other clans to declare war on them though, otherwise this would become a prime trolling opportunity.). In general though, the concept of fighting a war, but spending all your time hiding and doing nothing, seems a bit stupid. Building up? Sure. But you don’t declare war until you can fight the war, I’d think. Specially in a game.

It’s a bad idea to remove the protection that people are given by hidden planets. Clans that are the upstarts for the Rebel Alliance really need them, otherwise they get creamed by the Empire and their allies too fast. And because you two don’t think the rebels are doing things fast enough, doesn’t mean that they’re just flat out slacking and not doing it because they’re trying to hide and be bitches. It’s hard to do things that aren’t completely suicidal, because the odds are stacked pretty heavily against you.

I’m not saying that the Empire needs to be more lax, because so far it’s doing alright, but you can’t just expect a rag tag clan to just be like “EMPIRE WE ARE AT CORUSCANT, SEND YOUR CHAMPIONS HERPDERP.” There’s no fucking way that is fun for anyone involved, except for the pk-happy people

WALLDO EDIT: keep it civil.

This all goes back to what kind of requirements should be necessary for a clan to go from minor to major… especially when dealing with a clan that is intending to go up against another major. Personally, I feel the requirements to go major should be stricter. If you are going to be creating conflict, then create it. Don’t go major until you feel you are ready to bring (and take) the pain. If you are minor and building up, then the hidden sector makes sense. If you are major, then you should be ready to take anything the mud throws at you, for better or worse.

Minors with hidden sectors are okay with me. Majors should not have them though. It just gives them an excuse to sit on their hands and say “Hurr hurr you can’t touch us!”

I am absolutely against imposing time limits or other restrictions, and I really can’t see a better alternative to how it is now w/r/t hidden systems. It would be no different than telling the Empire “you can only have X number of capital ships for ” or any other handicap against a clan’s major advantage.

It might provide some more ‘action’ on a day to day level as they take more risks going out there, but in the long-term it is just going to lead to a more dull story. A hidden system is the only real advantage a rebel clan gets. Especially early on in the fight, they have overwhelming odds against them. This is why they are hiding in the first place.

Make it not hidden if they go major or otherwise having stricter requirements is a chicken or the egg situation. They need to be major to capture planets but especially in situations like now, having their clan base on a public planet opens them up to a pretty quick military defeat, base raids, etc. and puts things into an even worse situation than they are now. They can’t build their fleet beyond a meager ragtag band. There is a difficulty in recruiting. There is difficulty in training or doing something as simple as getting armor and weapons is a dangerous proposition.

The problem isn’t that clans camp out in hidden systems in this sitaution, the problem is that the rest of the game world is so inherently hostile that there is a good chance they will get permed for simply being in it.

These planets certainly don’t stay hidden “indefinitely,” they just go public long after the point where the enemies being able to get there effectively grinds the story to a halt.

As always, be the change you wish to see in the mud. I know that obviously isn’t possible in every sitaution, certainly not this one, but if you don’t think the rebels are doing a good job, go join them and show how it’s done.

Also just a side note I hate the word trolling because no one uses it right!

“Make it not hidden if they go major or otherwise having stricter requirements is a chicken or the egg situation. They need to be major to capture planets but especially in situations like now, having their clan base on a public planet opens them up to a pretty quick military defeat, base raids, etc. and puts things into an even worse situation than they are now. They can’t build their fleet beyond a meager ragtag band. There is a difficulty in recruiting. There is difficulty in training or doing something as simple as getting armor and weapons is a dangerous proposition.”

The point I was trying to make is that a clan, especially one that is expected to create conflict, shouldn’t be going major unless they are fully prepared to BE a major clan and take all the crap that goes with it. What good is a major that just sits out in a hidden system STILL prepping? In my personal opinion, if they are still a “ragtag” band, they should still be minor with a hidden system. Once they become a major threat, THEN make them major and take their hidden system as they will likely no longer need it since they will have control of planets.

We aren’t saying that rebels should not have a hidden system. It makes sense. What most of us are saying is that any major clan having access to a hidden system is wrong regardless of who it is.

To paraphrase something you told me earlier this era when I was going to try to do some RP to find a system: You told me that you were not leaning toward a hidden system because it causes things to stagnate.

You were right.

The fine, double-standard line between being a ragtag band and being ABLE to grow enough to fight the galactic superpower:
help clanlimits

The no more than 3 capitals in space (ever) clause kills these ragtag rebel startups. But, because they are trying to build and become better than that does NOT automatically mean they are big, bad, and ready to roll when they suddenly become major to be able to capture planets/field enough ships to perhaps take on the Empire.

I’ve said my piece, which was apparently glossed over. If you aren’t prepared to face the music when it comes to being a major, you shouldn’t apply to be a major in the first place. This isn’t just for rebels, but for ANY minor-to-major clan out there. If you’re going to bring in the “no more than three capitals in space ever” clause, I will retort with people are doing just fine right now harassing the shit out of people with just ONE capital. So I don’t want to hear that as an excuse. If you’re going major, grow some balls and do something. Don’t just hide out and act like you’re untouchable.

I’m behind on the current capital rules, and I can’t connect to the mud atm, but the system for the number of ships you used to be able to have as a major clan was based on a static amount of capital ships, something like six or eight, and then your clan was allowed to have more for each planet they owned. Could someone tell me if that’s still the way it is? Because that was a pretty big motivating factor for recovering/capturing/neutraling planets back in the day.

Edit: Kind of off topic, I know, but that system seemed to encourage a lot of ‘action’ in the past, which seems to be a motivating factor for most of the people complaining about hidden planets.

Assuming this thread is concerning current events, I’d say the Rebel Alliance is doing pretty much exactly what it did in the movies and canon. Think about it, Ep. 4-6 the only time they ever made a significant show of force was against the 2nd Death Star, and even then it was supposed to be a sneak attack raid on a defenseless target. The RA never made any serious military offensives until after Palpatine was gone and the NR was being formed.

Quicksilver: The base is 10.

CLANLIMITS CAPITALSHIP_OWNERSHIP
The following rules dictate what a clan can and cannot do based on its size
(major or minor).

Major Clans:
– Base fleet of 10
– 1 ship for every 3 planets in control outside capitol
– Have 1 safe sector
– May capture planets

Minor clans:
– No more than 3 capitals in space. Ever.
– May not capture planets.
– Are not guaranteed a safe sector (racially inclined Government/homeworld
combos get one: Sith/Korriban, Mandalorians/Mandalore)

All clans:
– May not own more than five ship blueprints at a time.

I don’t really have much input on hidden planets. They do kinda bother me but mostly for as far as the IC explanation of why you can’t get to navcharted systems if you can figure out it’s exact X,Y coordinates, but at the same time I do feel like sometimes a clan should just really have access to something like that.

But to Avanga: The Empire of the movies wasn’t able to bring the entire Imperial fleet to a single system anywhere in the galaxy in under an hour, and enjoyed building superweapons with kill spot pressure points which a small ragtag band of rebels could destroy effectively taking away a ton of resources (mostly the resource of time in that case). In a mud a lot of things just don’t quite work like they logically could in real life much less how they would in the movies. If it’s public IC knowledge or whatever that the rebels only have one cap ship as was mentioned earlier in this thread, it would make a ton of sense for the empire to just have two cap ships in every system it deems as relatively important that the rebels might show up in, and then the rebels would also have more of a chance via slowly defeating smaller fleets, gaining ground, being able to build a better fleet themselves, but the inherent problem of that is the empire isn’t going to have pilots online all the time to take care of each pair of ships and then it’d actually be too easy for the rebels. to just pick apart any currently unmanned fleet that was only twice as big or so than their own.

Hidden planets are a necessary evil at times. They should not be changed however, they can make the mud’s pace slow down at times but isn’t it more fun when the clan has time to build up and actually mount a real offensive. Take our current predicament for example, the Rebellion is the weaker of the clans obviously and attempting to build power. Hypothetically if the Rebellion had a base on Lorrd, the Empire could wipe them out in an instant… What real fun is brought to the timeline/era by having the main opposition to Imperial dominance destroyed in this manner? The hidden planet they reside gives them a chance to actual build up a force that can oppose the Empire, leading to better overall RP during a wartime setting and a more exciting timeline/era.

Talking about non-rebel clans is irrelevant because it is real obvious what this thread is actually about, and the way the rebel clans are treated is different than other minor hidden clans.

Like I said before, the real problem isn’t with clans having a hidden system to hide on.