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May 14, 2009 at 5:51 pm #1067"Johnson":2tolhie7 wrote:‘group’ – I’ve heard various opinions on whether this info is IC or OOC. Simply being in a group of people shouldn’t tell your character what each of their races are, their HP, etc. Seems like an OOC command to me, yet it interrupts virtually anything.
[Edit] Also, I don’t think ‘group all’ should display anything to the room. ‘$n groups $s followers.’ How would they know that?[/quote:2tolhie7]Remove Group, utterly and completely.
I find the follow/group system to be very clunky and difficult to use.
In fact, how about a TOTAL revamp of the ‘follow’ system. You could, also, allow following through hatchways, into/out of ships, et cetera.
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May 14, 2009 at 8:46 pm #9938"Skiia":1ap2fjcm wrote:"Johnson":1ap2fjcm wrote:‘group’ – I’ve heard various opinions on whether this info is IC or OOC. Simply being in a group of people shouldn’t tell your character what each of their races are, their HP, etc. Seems like an OOC command to me, yet it interrupts virtually anything.
[Edit] Also, I don’t think ‘group all’ should display anything to the room. ‘$n groups $s followers.’ How would they know that?[/quote:1ap2fjcm]Remove Group, utterly and completely.
I find the follow/group system to be very clunky and difficult to use.
In fact, how about a TOTAL revamp of the ‘follow’ system. You could, also, allow following through hatchways, into/out of ships, et cetera.[/quote:1ap2fjcm]
I’m actually going to have to agree with you on that one. I was going to disagree, but I thought about it and could not find a single reason to keep it around. The only reason I ever use group is for the contant nearby aspect of group members. When fighting, I make it a point to [b:1ap2fjcm]not[/b:1ap2fjcm] be grouped. The ‘group’ command sees through disguises, too. It’s one big mess that I never really got around to thinking about.
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May 14, 2009 at 9:32 pm #9945
Group has alot of uses, group is used for the entire leadership structure taking it out would have to recode leader mains again. Also the way I treat the group command showing race and hp and move is like a hud display on people who by one command or another have given you a link to there system. So I take the display icly. If you dont want people seeing it, stop tailing and stop following.
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May 14, 2009 at 10:23 pm #9946"Anastasius":pzdmouv2 wrote:Group has alot of uses, group is used for the entire leadership structure taking it out would have to recode leader mains again. Also the way I treat the group command showing race and hp and move is like a hud display on people who by one command or another have given you a link to there system. So I take the display icly. If you dont want people seeing it, stop tailing and stop following.[/quote:pzdmouv2]
+1, -1
Taking out group would be FUBAR far more than it would fix (which, as I can see, is… the disguise thing. The other stats it shows are OOC).
I repeat: GROUP STATS ARE NOT IC.
That being said, it would be cool if it was redone to, instead of showing actual HP, show what you’d see (as far as HP goes) when you look at them… consolidating it all in one place for your group, AND preventing idiocy.
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May 16, 2009 at 10:07 pm #9947
Group stats are [i:3f99b2h0]not[/i:3f99b2h0] IC?
So, you’re basically giving IC information OOCly, and expect the players not to use that information ICly, or at the very least for it not to affect their OOC decisions about their character?
Right.
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May 16, 2009 at 10:32 pm #9948"Skiia":rjvni7m6 wrote:Group stats are [i:rjvni7m6]not[/i:rjvni7m6] IC?
So, you’re basically giving IC information OOCly, and expect the players not to use that information ICly, or at the very least for it not to affect their OOC decisions about their character?
Right.[/quote:rjvni7m6]
Stats have [b:rjvni7m6]always[/b:rjvni7m6] been neither IC nor OOC. You don’t run around saying you have 22 str; you don’t talk about your character having 22 str on OOC, either.
If someone abuses the group system (or any other method) and makes decisions based on your character’s stats (in comparison to their stats, really), they’re metagaming, and a dumbass.
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May 17, 2009 at 12:42 am #9949
Possible Enemy says in Basic, ‘Follow me.’
You follow Possible Enemy.
Possible Enemy groups his followers.
<Possible Enemy checks group, goes LOLDISGUISE ITZ A YEVETHAN>
Possible Enemy’s blast ANNIHILATES you!!
—So let’s use this as a sarcastic counter-example for your statement:
If someone finds an exploit that allows them to superlevel their character in 30 seconds, code shouldn’t be implemented to prevent the cheating. They’re just metagaming and they’re a dumbass. Don’t worry, it won’t affect anybody so we don’t need to fix it.
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May 17, 2009 at 2:24 pm #9965"Skiia":3oaq2q68 wrote:Possible Enemy says in Basic, ‘Follow me.’
You follow Possible Enemy.
Possible Enemy groups his followers.
<Possible Enemy checks group, goes LOLDISGUISE ITZ A YEVETHAN>
Possible Enemy’s blast ANNIHILATES you!!
—So let’s use this as a sarcastic counter-example for your statement:
If someone finds an exploit that allows them to superlevel their character in 30 seconds, code shouldn’t be implemented to prevent the cheating. They’re just metagaming and they’re a dumbass. Don’t worry, it won’t affect anybody so we don’t need to fix it.[/quote:3oaq2q68]
Fail, by the by. There are systems in place to prevent perm/roleplay idiocy.
You know, that whole thing we elect every so often… I think it starts with an R, but they don’t really exist, so dunno.
Roleplay idiocy != code abuse
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May 18, 2009 at 12:28 am #9958
The info garnered from the group command can be used in very OOC ways. "Oh, this guy only has this much HP, I can take him", etc.
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May 18, 2009 at 12:32 am #9959"Avanga":fg8yqoup wrote:The info garnered from the group command can be used in very OOC ways. "Oh, this guy only has this much HP, I can take him", etc.[/quote:fg8yqoup]
Yeah, and you CAN use AIM to organize perms, too…
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May 18, 2009 at 1:38 am #9960
Yeah, but AIM cliques still won’t have /that/ info unless one of them has used the ‘group’ command. Check and mate.
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May 18, 2009 at 2:13 am #9961
Why are you so against this change, RJ?
Do you personally go around and check peoples’ HP, etc through group to give you an advantage?
Good, than you shouldn’t have any problem with it.
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May 18, 2009 at 4:12 am #9962
You know, it’s entirely possible to modify "group" with no arguments to do something OTHER than give you all kinds of dirty info on your group mates, like maybe a list of the people in your group as they appear, like publictitle/armor?
There’s nothing inherently wrong with the group/follow system but ‘group’ with no arguments needs work.
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May 19, 2009 at 12:24 am #9954"Fishy":2d6e0qsf wrote:You know, it’s entirely possible to modify "group" with no arguments to do something OTHER than give you all kinds of dirty info on your group mates, like maybe a list of the people in your group as they appear, like publictitle/armor?
There’s nothing inherently wrong with the group/follow system but ‘group’ with no arguments needs work.[/quote:2d6e0qsf]
I said modify it so that they can see what you look like, not what you actually are."Skiia":2d6e0qsf wrote:Why are you so against this change, RJ?Do you personally go around and check peoples’ HP, etc through group to give you an advantage?
Good, than you shouldn’t have any problem with it.[/quote:2d6e0qsf]
I have a problem with making one minor change (to fix a problem that really ISN’T abused all that much, and doesn’t do much even when it is abused) in such a way that far more is fucked over than is fixed.
First rule of problem solving: "don’t make the problem worse."
Doctors have the same rule: "do no harm."
I don’t think that doctors–PhD, MD, and DO alike–all have it wrong.
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