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December 29, 2009 at 3:29 am #12951"Avanga":3vaxg145 wrote:A modified version of the Jedi apprentice code could be used to take someone on as a student and show them the ropes.[/quote:3vaxg145]
This could work.
And yes, I am implying I think its way to easy to level up a character. I don’t think one should have to grind out a character for a month, but like I’ve pointed out…it doesn’t take much to get a character’s levels maxed with leaders currently. I do also think that leadership mains should be limited to teaching their field and the rest of the stuff should be almost nothing for XP.
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December 31, 2009 at 4:36 am #12976
I know this sounds newbiesh but what does each Leadership Focus do?
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January 1, 2010 at 7:10 pm #12998
I am at a somewhat disagreement with this idea, and the fact of "It promotes RP" does not really appeal to me. How many of you actually RP while being trained? Not many at all. Sure, you have a few says of who you are and then either says/osays of what level out of your max are you. Honestly, there really isn’t all that much RP going into the actual teaching part as far as I have seen.
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January 1, 2010 at 7:27 pm #12999
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink". But why should that stop us from giving the opportunities to people? Sure, lots of people don’t, but some people do. Look at guys like Andvari and the way he trained people with BHing. I tried to do something similar with Bridger before I had his main changed, I’d teach them how to climb and dig and told them they’d have to bring something to me to prove that they were ready for the next step (the crystal on Alderaan).
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January 1, 2010 at 7:52 pm #13000
Training BH skills(When it is limited) is vastly different from actually training -entire- class levels. Which is what I was commenting on.
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January 2, 2010 at 9:08 am #12989
Who cares about roleplay while training it, it’s a good leveling mechanism
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January 9, 2010 at 12:32 am #13059
I’m not even going to finish reading this thread before I say this:
If you take out leadership, science becomes even more useless.
EDIT:
And now after reading the thread…Avanga wrote:
A modified version of the Jedi apprentice code could be used to take someone on as a student and show them the ropes.I’ve suggested this numerous times.
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February 19, 2010 at 9:00 pm #13415
Leadership is an excellent class in theory, and an opportunity for roleplay experiences that are more unique than those not assuming a leadership role.
For reference, I have had the following leaders.
Leader/combat (multiple)
Leader/slicer
Leader/science
Leader/engineer
Leader/smuggler
Problems-Too few skills
-Some useless feats-Salesman(okay MAINLY useless)
-Mainly used to just grind others.
-Combat subclass bonus mostly useless. Most weapons at cap.
-No BH subclass.
-Smuggling bonus nearly useless.
Solutions
-Bring back BH. If someone wants a Leadership main BH, there should be a bonus available to them.
-Allow combat subclass bonus to go over normal cap at 150 leadership.
-Smuggling bonus gives free silent sneak when used in group.
-Limit their training scope to their selected subclass.
-Allow for at least 1 race in which their leader/subclass can get to 150.
Maybe every 25 levels, for leadership main, in addition to the current ones.
They can be broken down into two types. Maneuvers and Tactics.
Maneuvers apply to whole group. Tactics are self only
Maneuvers are like buffs. Only 1 can be active at a time. Tactics are passive
25-Maneuver �Defensive Positions�-1 ac for each leadership level
50-Tactic Ace Piloting-+1 dex for every 50 leadership levels
75-Maneuver �Focused Strikes�-+1 hr/dr for every ten leadership levels
100-Tactic Conservation-Skills in your subclass cost 1% less mv for each 2 levels of leadership.
125-Maneuver-Rapid Pace-Skills take 50% less time to complete.
150-Tactic �Wealth of Knowledge�-Pick a skill in your subclass. You learn it to 100%Obviously not all of these would make it in the game as is. There are things to consider and tweaks to be made, but I hope you guys get the idea. I really would like to see leadership overhauled again, and given unique skills.
On a side note I would like to see something like background type feats. Feats that are only available if you are a main in that class. It would help to differentiate say a science main with good engineering skills and armor crafting feat from a dedicated engineer with the same feat. Mechanics I�m not sure of yet, but I can think of something.
Sent from my phone heh
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February 20, 2010 at 10:36 am #13417
Leader/BH was removed because people were using it to get around the rules for clanning for BH mains.
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February 20, 2010 at 4:51 pm #13418
Out of the whole post, that’s the response? heh
I know why they were removed. It should be brought back though.
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February 21, 2010 at 4:35 pm #13420"xpuma20x":3o7mpj1p wrote:"SgtFlippy":3o7mpj1p wrote:Obviously you aren’t as informed as you’d like.[/quote:3o7mpj1p]
And [b:3o7mpj1p]obviously[/b:3o7mpj1p] you’ve gone full blown idiot. I’m not exaggerating a single thing, just because you can’t have a background written up before you make a character doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t. And just because you’ve never had a character leveled that fast doesn’t mean others haven’t. Stop pretending you know everything because [b:3o7mpj1p]obviously[/b:3o7mpj1p] you don’t. Not only have I had a character leveled that quickly (again it only took finding two different people for 5 classes…both of which were on Arkania) but I also have leader mains that can do it. I leveled someone’s combat in about 15 mins the other day (to about level 90 iirc), not to mention whatever leadership they gained too…and on another character of mine I leveled someone else’s slicing to 150 in what was more than likely less than 10 minutes. So until [b:3o7mpj1p]YOU[/b:3o7mpj1p] are the one that is more [b:3o7mpj1p]informed[/b:3o7mpj1p], shut your hole about what others can and can not do.
As far as the topic itself. I’m completely fine with the concept of allowing leaders and diplomats to be combined together, but no way should every character be able to teach their field…especially at the same rate that leadership is already at.[/quote:3o7mpj1p]
Haaa. King Kong ain’t got shit on him!
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February 21, 2010 at 5:02 pm #13421
Fyala was leader/combat and I had some excellent roleplay training the other Argazdans. Took some ideas from Equilibrium of course ;P
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February 21, 2010 at 5:33 pm #13422
The main argument against this seems to be that leveling is already too fast and that implementing this would make it even faster. I agree with Avanga on both counts — leveling [i:yib8c75f]isn’t[/i:yib8c75f] that fast, which is crippling the combat aspect of the MUD, and even if it were, this would actually slow down leveling for the most part.
"SgtFlippy":yib8c75f wrote:You both seem to exaggerate the time it takes to level these skills, it goes off what the persons levels are, which means someone with 30 slicing isn’t going to level you in 5 minutes flat.[/quote:yib8c75f]Five minutes, perhaps not. But my leadership main does have fairly pathetic slicer levels and she’s still capable of fully leveling a slicer main (or other character with high slicer) in about ten minutes, which, in the grand scheme of things, isn’t really that much longer than five minutes.
I’m not entirely sure I like what Avanga’s suggesting, but I do think that most of the arguments against it make little to no sense. The current convenience of a leadership main means that you can sit somewhere with one person who triggers between making keys, stealing from a citizen, and playing on their datapad, and you have three of the most played classes fully leveled in a negligible amount of time. Having to find and convince three different characters to train you instead of just one [i:yib8c75f]would[/i:yib8c75f] take longer… and the argument about how people would just get their AIMSmuggling, AIMSlicer and AIMEspionage pals doesn’t really hold much water since right now they’re just as capable of asking the same of their AIMLeadership buddy (and again, it only takes one third the effort).
I’ll admit Avanga’s system does make more sense… in the real world you can’t teach somebody more than you know (a level 10 smuggler can’t train somebody to level 90), but I’m really not overly concerned about that.
My main concern is this: I fucking hate questing. Not to mention the fact that there aren’t quests for every class at every tier (at least not that I’ve found), meaning you either have to collect 893475349867439674569864597 broken camera parts or go find a leadership main. Diplomacy is the absolute worst because there’s no skill you can use to level unless you’re in a clan, and even if you’re in a clan you can only use your skills a handful of times before you have to wait an hour for the planet to reset. There was a new quest put in, but requires skills from other classes, and even if you have those skills there’s no quest in the tier above. In short, if you want to level your diplomat you are going to be doing a LOT of package running… and that’s not even something you can legally bot, so you’re taking the time you would be spending interacting with the rest of the pbase just running back and forth between the Lightspeed office and the Arkanian Embassy. [b:yib8c75f]I. Hate. Questing.[/b:yib8c75f] There’s a viable alternative to questing things like slicer, but there really isn’t one for diplomacy in particular.
Piloting, engineering, medical — they’re all leveled through actually DOING things related to the class, things that sensibly would teach you more about it, and they’re far less frustrating than the others. Questing is an illogical way to level, it’s a slow way to level, and it’s a boring way to level. Honestly I’d support something as ridiculous as having every character able to teach every class before I’d say questing is a better idea.
I did have another point to make but at this point I’m so distracted by my loathing of questing that I don’t remember it.
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