Welcome to Legends of the Jedi Forums The Brainstormtorium Capture or Kill? Advanced Civilization's Space Problems
This topic contains 7 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  rakun 1 year, 11 months ago.
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    • Oteri Participant
      October 13, 2017 at 12:55 pm #30443

      So just about everyone knows I have a dog in this race (war) and I’m usually a pilot. In the years I’ve played here, I’ve been reprimanded, punished, and, true story, have had a guilty conscience at times over just straight nuking people in space because I suspect them to be an enemy without (enough or any) proof.

      Recently, without too many details, I made a snap decision and immediately knew I did wrong. I’m sure you know where I’m going with this at this point.

      So what I would like to do is open up a dialog and get some brainstorming done. Here’s my connundrum:
      1) I’m a pilot, I’ve got horribly shitty levels in combat.
      2) I don’t know if the potential enemy is a Sith Lord, Supreme Surface Marshal, or some flimsy ass espionage main that I could possibly actually win a fight against if it comes to one.
      3) I can’t always carry around 1-3 members of a gank squad in my hangar. Even if I do, what happens when they fuck up and the dude we just captured goes and throws 45 grenades into my engine bay because they forgot to block? And not all capital ships have “capture” bays with lockable doors.

      Here’s what I’m looking for:
      1) I would prefer, and I know there are some staff members that would agree, to capture over kill, because dying in space like this is some bullshit. Fighters and transports die in 4-5 turbolaser shots, and larger ships that aren’t capital class don’t last much longer.
      2) How have you handled things like this in the past?
      3) What are some theories you think might work, without code?
      4) Are there things that could be eventually coded that might help with this?

      Anything else on the topic, please discuss. Thanks for participating.

    • Xerakon Participant
      October 13, 2017 at 12:59 pm #30444

      Standard tactic: Hold the ship either by their compliance, tractor beam, or ion. Have an army grunt use a fighter to dock up with their ship. Keep in constant comms. If they kill your grunt, nuke the ship. If the grunt won’t do it because of space death – too bad. Make them. This is a game where we get points where we die.

    • Oteri Participant
      October 13, 2017 at 1:03 pm #30445

      That’s a solid point. At times, I don’t always have ground grunts to do it though, and let’s say I’m blockading an enemy planet. I’m sitting pretty just at about 2005 in range, just outside of tractor beams. When someone launches from the planet, I got ONE quick way to stop them as it is right at this very moment, and it ain’t always pretty for them. If I risk getting close enough to tractor them, I’m close enough to get pummeled by missiles/torps/rockets and turbolasers.

    • Telestrial Participant
      October 13, 2017 at 1:06 pm #30446

      Unpopular opinion incoming:

      I think that your clan’s ability to check a ship’s contents should more heavily influence what happens to it. In other words, some set of rules like this:

      1) If the ship is an enemy clan or personal ship of someone of your enemy, you can nuke it into the ground.
      2) If it’s not one of the above, it must be checked if the person doesn’t respond to hail.
      3) If your clan can’t muster someone to check the ship in X amount of time (30 minutes? 1 hour?), the ship gets to go free.

      One of the primary criticisms, I’m sure, is that this isn’t how a blockade would work. You’d say “why the fuck should someone just be allowed to walk?” and my counter is “why do we have a limit on jail time? That’s not realistic either, and yet the system works well.”

      The reason you’re not allowed to just nuke everything you see is to discourage the newb-killing that has happened in the past and to increase risk for blockading clans that have a system under control. How many stalemates have we had in recent eras? A ton. I think the above guidelines could help diffuse all that.

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by  Telestrial.
      • This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by  Telestrial.
      • This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by  Telestrial.
    • Gathorn Participant
      October 13, 2017 at 1:28 pm #30450

      That’s kind of how it works/gets enforced now, telestrial. Enemy clanners/clan owned ships do tend to die these days, everyone else either gets searched or goes free after some harassment. It’s been a very long minute since i have seen someone make a ship sit there for an unnecessarily long time as they decide to wait for someone to log on.

      As far as enemy clanners/ships go, not everyone wants to instant perm them. Legal? Sure, but I’ve always been a proponent of capturing when able anyway. With the exception of my yevethan, every space character I’ve had took prisoners in space. I permed plenty sure, but i still took a lot of people to jail via space captures. I feel like it used to be a common thing. It fell out of practice as a result of kamekazis, which i was hoping the grenade changes would rectify, but the damage was done and some people are still suffering PTWD (post traumatic walldo disorder) from kamekazis tactics.

      I personally feel it makes the story(re: game) more interesting to take prisoners of war. I ran into a self-destructing ship so i can drag ravaus’ ass to jail and sentence him to kessel, because i was the damn imperial admiral, and i wasn’t letting the rebel leader get out easily by dying without us parading him to the RA. Sure, he later escaped from kessel and went right back to the RA where i think i eventually murdered him, but it made things so much more interesting than “killed rebel leader. Time to wait for the next guy to pop up. Probably a guy with much less back story as we killed everyone who had an actual played backstory. Mercilessly. Glad i won the era. I’m bored. Time to suicide and make something else.”

      It’ll backfire some too. I remember tractoring Valens’ pilot/combat corellian onboard. Luckily i was able to juke him and make it to the planet safely, at the cost of my ship. But again, more entertaining and interesting.

      With the exception of capital worlds, getting within 2k, in my opinion, isn’t a big deal. It’s usually one ship firing 2-3 turbolasers every 3 seconds and one rocket/torp every three seconds.

      Personally, to me this is more of a pbase mentality thing. I can’t really think of any code changes that will make people be more willing to take a risk when there is always a no-risk option.

    • Zeromus Participant
      October 13, 2017 at 2:28 pm #30451

      When someone launches from the planet, I got ONE quick way to stop them as it is right at this very moment, and it ain’t always pretty for them. If I risk getting close enough to tractor them, I’m close enough to get pummeled by missiles/torps/rockets and turbolasers.

      pouring one out for my pilot homies that actually have to risk something to perma blockade a planet

      i will pray for you in this trying time oteri

      real talk: if you don’t have the grunts to perform a checkpoint properly then don’t do a checkpoint. if you want to do one without adequate personnel then it makes complete sense that yes you’re going to half ass it and yes it’s going to be imperfect. from your original posts it seems like your only perceived options are killing someone or capturing them but there’s actually a pretty good third option which is if you aren’t equipped to inspect someone just gotta send em back to the planet or send them along. that is the main answer you are going to get here and sometimes it is best to take a draw. it is not a loss or a win for either side if both walk away without succeeding against eachother.

    • Xavious Participant
      October 13, 2017 at 3:04 pm #30452

      I’m guilty of jumping the gun with space perms from time to time. Sometimes the tension of war causes us to make terrible snap decisions. That’s why it’s important to consciously hash out scenarios before they come up so you already know how you’re going to respond. If naval leaders put as much thought into their “rules of engagement” war doctrine for general blockading and patrolling as they did actually fighting the big battles, I think these issues are easily resolved. The tools are already in place code wise to handle anything that’s thrown at you. It’s just a matter of coming up with the right doctrines within your organization to handle them appropriately, and making sure all the pilots know what is and isn’t acceptable. Personal admission: I’m guilty of not establishing these guidelines myself in the past. We live and we learn right?

      Anyway, to me, it’s pretty simple. If the ship isn’t owned by a known enemy, and you have no intelligence about who is in the ship, then you probably shouldn’t be attempting to perm them at all. That being said, I think behavior in response to hails and being tractored is also a factor in what’s acceptable. Basically if they’re rolling the dice and trying to run the blockade, then I think they’re fair game, regardless of the ship and who may be in it. However, you also don’t have to instantly incinerate every enemy transport on sight either. On the other hand, I guess it also depends on the level of desperation a clan is facing as to how extreme their reactions might be. A lot of it’s subjective and circumstantial, but I do think getting blockade permed in a small ship is probably the worst possible way you can die in this game.

      Personally I don’t find capital vs small ship combat very meaningful or sporting. I’d rather be raiding a system and causing disruption as a pirate, or fighting an all out fleet engagement than be stuck babysitting a planet indefinitely like a vulture waiting to catch a free meal of instant blockade perms, as unsuspecting newbies launch from the enemy clan pad.

      That’s a solid point. At times, I don’t always have ground grunts to do it though, and let’s say I’m blockading an enemy planet. I’m sitting pretty just at about 2005 in range, just outside of tractor beams. When someone launches from the planet, I got ONE quick way to stop them as it is right at this very moment, and it ain’t always pretty for them. If I risk getting close enough to tractor them, I’m close enough to get pummeled by missiles/torps/rockets and turbolasers.

      Perming someone from turbolaser range is not the only quick way to stop a launching ship, even if you’re holding position outside of tractor range. Local hyperspace jumps take literal seconds to complete. I’d hope you would already have your battlegroup assembled in a formation that would allow you to jump in and out of range at will. If you gauge their trajectory and plot your jump a few hundred units away from the planet at an intercept vector, not only is it going to take awhile for any relevant projectiles (rockets) to hit you, but you can chaff and, as Gathorn said, in most causes we’re talking about a single orbital. Some of these methods might take a little practice and a high level of control, but it’s definitely feasible and, if you’re aspiring to be a top notch pilot, then this is the type of higher level control and awareness you should be working on anyway instead of: “target <insignificantly tiny ship>”, “fire” x 100. I’m pretty sure you fly with your ships in formation, Oteri, as I’ve flown with you a few time, and I’m pretty sure you’re capable of these maneuvers ;-).

    • rakun Participant
      October 14, 2017 at 12:56 pm #30454

      I agree with Zero on it. I’ve tried ID’ing people several times, and let them go if I wasn’t certain about it or didn’t have grunts, unless they were dumb and tried dodging my ID check.

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