An idea for the future

I propose that a rule be made to protect allied engineering clans from enemies of the clan that they’re allied with. The rule should restrict major clans from declaring war on the engineering group, protect the people in the clan from being permed for simply being allies, in exchange for not being able to perm them, the raiding group would be allowed to keep them as prisoners of war for the maximum seven days, and then the clan would have immunity for seven days(sort of like the planet capture freeze from this timeline). This would only be the case if the engineers don’t take aggressive action toward the major clan that is after them.

I know it’s not really ‘realistic’, but from the way the engineering clans this timeline have been bullied around, I don’t think it’s fair for people who spend hours and put forth a lot of effort getting their engineer up to snuff to be permed for basically in a clan they have little say over who their bosses ally with.

Any input is welcome.
[size=50:nfpkdfkf](Que the flames…)[/size:nfpkdfkf]

I like it and I agree that engineering clans need some sort of protection from big government clans that decide to abuse them. The only problem is that engineering clans are rarely JUST made up of engineers… you always get those wannabe badass combatants working as security… and they’d basically have free reign. If you can work something out for that, it’ll all be groovy.

That’s true, Avanga, but the ones who are hostile toward the raiders would be fair game for perming. It would mostly be to protect the helpless ones who might be botting, since it’s not against the rules to perm a botter. If you don’t act like a hero, a security guy’s not going to be like "DERP CHARGE THE ARMY GUYS AND FORCERS!". I mean, honestly, no security officer with a small part of their brain would attack a couple Stormtroopers if they walked in and threw up their duces and told him to hand over the engineers.

Heh, my experiences with stormtroopers hasn’t been them being all that tough. Anyway, not relevant…

I would like to propose few changes:

Declaring war on factions should have reasonable RP to back it up. Not "You’re allied with the Jedi, so you’re our enemy." or "Some random Jawa knows that restrung armor I’m wearing belonged to a dead jedi, so I’m declaring war on a clan I know nothing about other than they have an orbital construction dock in a locked sector".

If a clan is allied with a clan you’re at war with, you should not be able to indiscriminately perm their members unless you have reasons to declare war on them or valid reasons to perm the specific individual.

Clans allied with a government faction should have CAPSHIPRULES immunity over a friendly planet the same as the government does. NFUv2 lost an entire MC80 fleet over a few planets early in era 3 because nothing like this is even covered in the rules when the Blacksun’s CAPSHIPRULES immunity should have covered them as well in some sort of way.

There should be something in the rules, and I really don’t know what, to protect minor clans from the credit extortion that’s occured in era 3. I don’t have a problem with taxation, but an ‘anti-stupidity tax’ is nothing but pure bullshit.

It never really made sense to me how minor clans in general were subject to the same conflict rules as major clans (war or what have you). Minor clans typically have fewer resources at their disposal and are ill-equipped to defend against themselves if the one sole major clan decides to beat the shit out of them because they "might become a problem."

Happens too many times when you have minor clans that have well known names from the Star Wars universe like Czerka or Black Sun. It’s called godmoding and it’s stupid.

I personally think having major and minor clans is stupid anyway… for exactly what Kirash said… A major clan WILL want to at one point war a minor clan… 2 battlegroups of 6 ships each against 3… nice.

It was fucking nuts trying to keep Novastar from getting raped to death. But I don’t think banning all extortion and attacks on minor clans is the solution, just non-retarded enforcement of existing rules. Engineers aren’t a threat, so why are they allowed to be permed?

Under help war:

Other things to note:
1) War must have been declared if you wish to perm someone for the primary
reason of "he was a member of clan X." The RPC will determine, as usual, if
your primary reason is adequate. A simple "we were at war" in the vast majority
of cases is not good enough. Perms carried out for the main reason of ‘they are
a member of the enemy clan’ will be carefully reviewed by the RPC. It’s
recommended that you have a better reason than just that to kill an enemy clan
member. As always, "exceptional circumstances" may arise, and the validity of
the kill will be determined by the RPC.

2) Reasonable attempts should be made to capture prisoners. There is no need to
kill everyone in a warring clan. however, this is not always possible or even a
sane action.

3) While you may kidnap specific clanmembers for when not at war, going after
random clanmembers for the primary reason of clan affiliation is not allowed.

If this were actually enforced by a non-terrible RPC, there wouldn’t be a problem.

The extortion is a slightly different issue, and while some extortion should definitely be allowed, the crazy "Give us 100 million credits or we’ll literally murder every last one of you" stuff needs to stop.

Actually, for once I agree absolutely 100% with Fishy. The rules aren’t the problem, it’s the enforcement of them.

Hmmm, I agree that engineering clans shouldn’t be completely wiped out just because they are allied with an opposing faction but why do they have to be allied in the first place… in an official manner of course.

If you type showclan Empire for example and lets say Kuat was allied with them, why did they officially ally with them in the first place. Kuat could be questioned by the rebellion about how ISD’s came into the hands of the Empire. The simple answer would be that they threatened to murder their engineers if they didn’t sell/give them ships. Even though this answer isn’t true how do the rebels find out unless there is a spy in Kuat engineering?

Also engineers if they did ally with powerful clans shouldn’t be immune to action against them. If you wanted to destroy an opposing army logically taking out their supplies would be a good idea. In the mud, supplies are cappies. I do sympathize with engineers though. I have a Arkanian engineer this timeline, every singal science skill is adept, same with every engineering skill. That takes time and effort, you don’t want to see that wasted in the blink of an eye. Rule enforcement on that part like Fishy mentioned would be nice.

However if you take action as an engineering clan you are fair game. If you get caught lying you should be fair game, if you yourself as the engineer take action you should be fair game.

Lastly I haven’t run an engineering clan for a few TL’s now but why not just save some capital ships in a hangar that the empire never enters? So that they do not know how many you yourself has. If they come for blood. Launch the capital ships to buy your guys some time to get away etc…

Right. Either get rid of the locateship ‘ship class’ method (that’s already being discussed in another thread) or make it so ships on hidden pads can’t be located. Or both. They are supposed to be hidden, after all.