A Real Economy

I know Laudo spoke of this a couple days ago, and I agree that a real, functioning economy would go a long way towards making the MUD more interesting. Feel free to run with my ramblings if you think it can go somewhere.

The way I see it, we need to start with planets. Planets need to generate a LOT more in the way of credits… this could be done by upping the population numbers to something more realistic, or revamping the system completely… up to you. But once planets start generating credits, clans will have a reason to control them–to produce their fleets, gear their players, and deny the enemies those credits.

Here’s what I’ve got so far, though I’m a little iffy on the R&D returns.

[img:21f6tang]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Avanga/Economy1.jpg[/img:21f6tang]

In essence, once the controlling clan starts generating more revenue, they can pay more to their members, which makes being in the clan more appealing. They can also pay more for ships, which might open up bidding between engineering clans. Crime clans, of course, will live off of thievery and probably spice sales once some better stuff is implemented. The credits flow downwards to engineering clans, which should be required to sink credits into R&D for new ships, and they’ll have to pay their members as well (though I’d suggest a hard cap on minor clan payouts to prevent poaching from the governments).

The next thing we need is a way to give incentive to engineering clans to pay outsiders, because if the buck stops there, things will fall apart.

I’m stuck beyond this, but once I get more ideas, I’ll get back on it.

I…

>.<

[img:1yxhfl0i]http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww287/lotjskiia/economy.png[/img:1yxhfl0i]

Upkeep is going to be damn important. Ships should cost clans an upkeep fee, with bigger ships costing more than smaller ones, etc. On a personal level, food would be a small upkeep (and I didn’t mind having to eat/drink), and gear needing proper upkeep from an engineer might help that, though players will probably offer the service for free again. T_T

Since Walldo asked, here’s a bump of an Economy post I made a while ago. Time to add what I’ve been thinking. Firstly, log from discussion on OOC earlier:

[quote:1c5lulxt]
(OOC) *Avanga: The way I see it, the main source of income on this MUD should be from clans, not quests. Freight should pay really well, but freighters should be so big and expensive and require so much upkeep that only a select few and maybe some clans would bother.

(OOC) *Altrez: Or crews of people with a freight <!– s:P –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt="" title="Razz" /><!– s:P –> That’s always cool.

(OOC) *Avanga: I had stuff like deteriorating armor and routine ship maintenance written up, taxation on homes, shops, clan bases, ships in orbit, etc.

(OOC) *Sarac: I do agree that ships should be ALOT more expensive to own privately.

(OOC) *Sarac: Especially medium ships

(OOC) *Sarac: 1-2 mil is just so cheap

(OOC) *Avanga: Actually, cost-wise it’s retarded. It should be cheaper but require more maintenance. Real prices on fuel, routine upkeep or else the ship has a % chance of sabotaging on launch/hy/etc.

(OOC) *Avanga: One-time fees are nothing for the MUD. They’ll just bot it ’til they get it.

(OOC) *Sarac: the entire economy system needs a revamp

(OOC) *Avanga: That’s what I’m saying. But it’ll never happen because it’s tied so closely to planetary AI and whatnot.

(IMM) *Gathorn: How is it tied to planetary AI?

(OOC) *Avanga: Okay. To establish an economy, people need to get paid and they need to spend money. The only way you can really do that here is to have permanent upkeeps. Taxes and things. That’s going to be tied to planetary AI. Cargo and freight is tied to planetary AI.

(OOC) *Avanga: Clans need to get money to pay their employees/recruits/etc. That’s all tied to planetary AI.

(OOC) *Avanga: You can’t really make a good economy in one step. Everything needs to be designed and laid out beforehand, and then implemented with all the other points in mind to keep everything balanced.

(OOC) *Avanga: One thing I was thinking, wouldn’t it be cool if leader mains could set taxes on shops on a store-by-store basis? That way the shops in high-traffic areas could be taxed higher, while the backwater ones could have a lower taxation rate to make it appealing.

(OOC) *Avanga: I don’t think that’d work with the current system, though.

(OOC) *Altrez: Tax bank accounts?

(OOC) *Avanga: Also, to cut inflation, we’d kinda need to limit the way new credits come into the MUD. Quests and things. Give the MUD the credits that people come into the game with, maybe some of the taxation from planetary population… let the rest of it cycle.

(OOC) *Avanga: That way there’s always an extra 200000c or so from new characters being leveled that gets into circulation and that’s about it.

(OOC) *Avanga: ‘Course, I guess with stat training and things, those credits disappear and are never seen again…

(OOC) *Avanga: Am I on the right train of thought here, or am I just babbling?

(NEWBIE) *Sivrak: Dunno what your even talking about <!– s:P –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt="" title="Razz" /><!– s:P –>

(OOC) *Altrez: Can it be both?

(OOC) *Avanga: Trying to make a balanced economy, Sivrak. And I suppose all of those random things that ‘eat’ credits, like training and npc shops could always just go to planetary funds.

(OOC) *Avanga: That’s another thing. Change planets to have persistent funds.
[/quote:1c5lulxt]

I’ll post the rest when I get it copied down…

Here’re some things I jotted down earlier while I was at work… ideas to help build an economy.

[b:3sob08fc]Clans[/b:3sob08fc] should be the best, most reliable source of income for players. Getting there won’t be easy though, ’cause it means that we need to make clans more profitable while making other tasks less profitable (without imbalancing everything). Package-running shouldn’t usually give any credits. Cargo-hauling should be effective, but with proper balance in the economy it shouldn’t be commonplace for players to own a freighter themselves.

[b:3sob08fc]Engi clan expenses:[/b:3sob08fc] Payroll (this is important, clans should be paying a lot to keep their star engineers in with them), materials, blueprints, rental for bases/facilities and also for clan-owned shops. Healthy competition should keep the prices low enough for players to afford while keeping it high enough for it to be a challenge to get some things.

And for individual players:

[b:3sob08fc]Timed Armor Upkeep:[/b:3sob08fc] Bacta and or AC slowly degrades on the armor until it’s properly serviced by someone with the equivalent skills. Prevented by routine maintenance. Done by engineers?

[b:3sob08fc]Timed Ship Upkeep:[/b:3sob08fc] Ship has a % chance of sabotaging a random system on itself if it isn’t properly serviced. (Routine maintenance). Neglected ships are more prone to breakdowns. Done by engineers/pilots/smugglers to varying degrees?

[b:3sob08fc]Rent &amp; Taxes:[/b:3sob08fc] Homes, shops and ships on actual [b:3sob08fc]spaceport[/b:3sob08fc] pads are subject to daily taxes that go to the planet’s clan. Handled by diplo/leader with skills. Homes would probably be a single tax, but shops should be adjustable on a case-by-case basis to make out-of-the-way shops more appealing to people. Ship taxes would only apply on flagged SPACEPORT pads, not the secret/rickety/out-of-the-way pads.

[b:3sob08fc]Fuel Prices:[/b:3sob08fc] The code is already in the game, just adjust it to be reasonably in-line with the rest of the MUD. This’ll make starfighters more appealing than bigger ships for travel and makes sure that larger ships cost more to run.

[b:3sob08fc]Military Upkeep:[/b:3sob08fc] Ships in orbit of planets take a set amount of credits daily to keep running. Failure to do so leads to fuel loss, etc. Hard-coded by ship size.

Fuel prices, fuel prices, fuel prices. There needs to be a clan (or two for competition) that mines the fuel and sells it to the planets. Planets then regulate how much it costs per unit. 10 credits for 100 units of fuel and 10 credits for 100,000 units of fuel…doesn’t make much sense

I don’t see why we need a clan harvesting fuel. Have the credits go to the planet’s controller. Ta-da.

You have a clan harvesting it…because you can…There’s more pluses to why you would do it then why you wouldn’t

There really aren’t any pluses to it. It’s a minimal RP role that gives engineers another reason to not be around other players. Giving it to a clan specifically intended for getting the fuel is even more detrimental because it spreads the pbase even thinner. This is one of those things that’s better left untouched, like our chars having to go to the washroom and etc.

Regardless, this topic has NOTHING to do with what this thread is about, so make your own post about it if you like.

Actually it has a lot to do with the topic. Stop being so dramatic. The fact is that fuel needs to be regulated beyond 10 credits for a full tank. If fuel is just handed to the governing clans to do whatever they want with it, with no repercussions at all, then you’re A) just handing them one of the most important freebies ever…and giving them a way to tax the shit out of everyone not in their clan (because selling it to themselves, they don’t lose anything)

I didn’t say &quot;Homes and shops on spaceport pads.&quot; I said &quot;Homes,&quot; &quot;Shops,&quot; and &quot;Ships on spaceport pads&quot;. IE, if your ship is sitting at the Gov’t pad on Coruscant, you pay to keep it there. However, if you leave it at, say the Deserted Pad on Arkania (or the old hidden pads on Corellia and Alderaan), it’ll be in the clear.

I agree that people should be paid while botting, because there isn’t much else to do in an engi clan.

I still think you’re grasping for straws with the fuel situation. Yeah, the clan gets to take fuel tax free. So? That’s one of the benefits of controlling a planet. Maybe people will go to war over it. I still don’t see any reasonable or logical way to have a clan farming fuel, aside from having more engineers botting in the middle of nowhere (or having it just happen behind the scenes). Either way, it’s too convoluted and pointless to bother. Engi bots farming fuel, engi flies fuel to planet, engi stores fuel on planet, planet has fuel? Get realistic, the game would collapse within days because nobody’d be harvesting enough fuel.

And for the record, I suggested making fuel costs reasonable. I just don’t think it should hinge on a clan to make it functional. Fuel is like everything else, it’s an infrastructure thing. It should go to the planet that’s controlling the pad. And besides all of that, engineering clans do NOT need another way to make credits. They need more drains on their credits, which means the imms need to hike up the cost of parts, blueprints and etc. It’s necessary to find a safe balance where the clans can make enough to survive but not undercut each other or overcharge like mad.

Haha. Skia saw that crappy chart (No offence) and had to make a new one

Avanga, I think you’re on to something here. But a few notes: Starting with, I beg of you, no talk of food/drink hunger/thirst code. Not only is it one of the most annoying things in the world, but it takes away from RP. (Ironic, maybe?) for the same reason as characters going to the bathroom.

Upkeep for ships would need tweaking of repairship. I think right now it’s a universal skill?

And probably my only major complaint with this is that it is based on Clan revenue paying out to players, as you’ve said. Which means that unemployed characters will be hard up for cash.

Edit: …Which is probably how it should be, in a good economy. But it is a game, where many people play alts (who can’t clan). What should they do for cash?

This is an incentive for people to get involved in clans. Bigger clans mean better conflicts. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be impossible for anyone else to get by. There’ll still be demand for freelance people. Hunters, smugglers, engineers, slicers, anyone who can teach. It’ll just make things a little more day-to-day for the unclanned people, and I personally think that’d be more fun than collecting the interest on 50 mil in the bank.