A better way for fleet.

So the idea of changing battlegroup in my eyes has been a constant open topic for discussion. I tend to just give reasons why it would not work. Well the single ship combat does not solve the factor of one ship being better then another or the fact of the pilots skill level. Both are very hard to make “fair” or “balanced”

So. I had a idea for changing battlegroups I was thinking of submitting. Basing the battlegroup size off flagship. Then also limiting how many ships can be in each layer of defense per type of flagship. Then even making it so say a ISD had a fleet of 6 yet could not group a second heavy. Yet a MC80 has a fleet of five, with capable of putting two more ships of equal size in midguard. Essentially making it so we had to use all sizes of ships. Of course, Light and modified cruisers could have the current max of four with only able to group that size of ship or smaller into outerguard. Thus making such as a heavy cruiser. Such as Victory-Class vs a Venator the victory being bigger could group the venators how they please. Making a term of “balancing” come from the ships capabilities. It would also make flagships and heavy spacecraft such as a battleship worth much more, when you limit the amount they can have per fleet.

With that said the fact that this would take care of. When one ship is slightly better then the other its only so big of a problem, The second we look at it at a scale across 4 ships or more each time that difference stacks up. Each time that side is more powerful. In conclusion. This would remove the usage of 1 sole ship in a fleet making it so developing numerous different styles of capital vessels would be the most beneficial. Since the usage of them would be almost required even into era 3. Since a different set of values could be put into even just the idea of “large ships” It can even limit Heavy cruiser, ships we get in late era 2 vs the original cappies of era 1 or even special set ships from the immortals for events. It offers much more play and give into the system. The limits per layer of defense could even be done on a number value. So you could sacrifice having a ship in total fleet count to put another large vessel into it. Making it so the exchange has a penalty. Instead of a free standard upgrade across the board. I have been thinking about this off and on since our most recent topic discussion on this. Did a few emails to old players that no longer play here. Bounced it off of them aswell. So far I have gotten help on it aswell as feedback positive and negative. Please give any ideas or thoughts you have.

In all essence a small recap on it. It would put in a system to make it so you will never see 4 ISDs grouped. Maybe battlegrouped to the deathstar, or a Golan battlestation or something. It would rescale how fleet works quite a bit. Yet leave much of its core system of how you use the commands the same. Firing the support ships is not the problem. One side having 4 to 8 ships better then the other happens to be a large factor that seems to be overlooked. Ships being better is brought up. Its dismissed as :Oh its barely better” When you have it as four ships being better. It starts to add up a difference. It also would be adding a more realistic feel and look to the usage of fleet. Secondly making those nice beig developed ships we love all the more special when we do create them.

One a last thought. This could open the door for flagship specific prints. Making it so its identical to the cruisers. Yet can battlegroup? Or battlegroup more? Yet costs more? Or a possible buyable upgrade afterwards. Instead of a entire development. Just more food for thought, for at the starting of TL get a nice advantage because your side sunk 30,000,000 into making a flagship variant print.

I think that’s an interesting idea. The prospect of variety in the fleet is enticing. I can also see how it might balance things out to not have one ship duplicated for the entire fleet. If a clan “A” develops a ship that is significantly better than clan “B” it makes their fleet exponentially more powerful as that ship replaces all the other lesser ships in clan “A”s fleet. I’m not as well versed at the naval aspect of LOTJ as others are, however, so I’m not sure how this would be accomplished or if it would even improve anything or not.

If I’m reading this right, basically you mean only heavy ships can lead battlegroups yeah?

I would not like heavy ships only being able to lead battlegroups. Pirates have a hard enough time without losing their ability to ghetto-build battlegroups.

That’s actually a very good point Avanga, something like this would skew naval fleets towards larger and more powerful clans.

There’s still value in the idea of taking some of the exponentiality off the force multiplier gained by a new-tech-level cap blueprint. Delk makes a good point – the day you get a new cap blueprint, you make everyone and their ma build you a fully turned-over fleet and you rush forward before the other guy gets with the program. Some way to encourage broader fleet diversity would be lovely.

I’ve actually posted some stuff on how to make for more varied fleets. There needs to be a rock/scissors/paper setup to space battles to encourage diversity. Just restricting how battlegroup works won’t really cut it.

No not just heavies. Yet for a heavy to be in a battlegroup it needs to be the leader or under a ship specified to have more then one. Large ships still battlegroup, Heavy has to be the flagship if present in the fleet. Some fleets that have overall weaker ships can have more total in numbers or in total heavy spacecraft in the battlegroup. Its to remove major clans from using all heavies in a battlegroup, Its actually meant to hinder them more against smaller clans. S

So, let me get this straight:

Basic recap of what Delk said: Only 1 heavy-class ship should be allowed per BG?

That sounds like a good balancing idea.

Yes Baxtalo. Yet their was a part stating. When one side has a overall weaker ship. They could group more heavies. Or have a overall entire larger fleet. We cannot use ships as a way to balance player skill. If that one pilot or two pilots do not fly, then a entire clan is at a disadvantage.

That seems like it would be a lot harder to maintain than just a straight “one heavy-class per BG” coded rule. A ship is large or heavy. If you start talking in semantics like “stronger” and “weaker” outside of that, it becomes an extremely complicated, hard to manage thing should it even be possible.

The coding is up to Walldo. Yet I have faith in him. It would require forcing heavies to only be in central and midguard. Making outer only for cruisers. He would have said it was impossible by now. Yet even just limiting them to only flagships if in battlegroup still creates the element of more RP created fleets. Also say if the Empire developed a deathstar, Heavies could be BGed to it. Since its a spacestation. If the adding in of some fleets could have more then one heavy was not done. It would become a simple process of forcing largest ship to be leader, then not allowing equal size to support it.

I’m just someone who thinks they are decent at fleet dynamics and see the change over of ships, also the creation of one superior ship creating one side to have the advantage across a entire fleet. It would promote the development of cruisers later in TL. To even creating a flagship specific ship.