Some changes to the force

I believe that at some points the force system is simply imbalanced, or not portraying things correctly, and I think its time to make some changes to the system.

These inbalances mainly have to do with the 4 different classes that you can pick as a force user, I currently have nothing to say about the many skills.

The first big imbalance, is in my opinion, the fact that consulars get +10 force. This means that pretty much everyone that purchases force gets a combat main and becomes consular. However, consulars already get a big bonus compared to other classes, they get the most mana per level.  The +10 to force makes them even stronger. This is why I think the +10 force bonus should simply be removed from consulars.

The other imbalance simply is the fact that one force class is more usefull then the other, when not looking at the skills it gives you, due to the mana they get per level. This makes a consular still be much better/stronger then a guardian. To adress this, the other classes should get some kind of bonus in another field to become more usefull. For example, a Guardian could get, besides the 15 mana/level, also get something such as 20 movement points per level, which would allow them to make more use of their combat orrientation in battle, and do more special attacks such as flurry without tiring out quickly.

The Sentinel, sitting in between the 2,  receives 25 mana/level, it would make sense that they get a lower movement boost then a guardian. Something like 10.

Consulars, relying on the force more, don’t get a movement boost. This is because they can keep using force skills a lot more then the other classes.

The Sage wouldn’t get any additional skill bonuses, as it already provides an exp boost to padawans. However, to make the Sage more useful as well, any padawans training under a Sage will only need to remain a padawan for 10 days (instead of 14) before they can become a knight, and, they can train 2 padawans at the same time. This means that the sage will not only allow padawans to become a knight faster, but in times of need can take on an extra padawan aswell when there are too many available.

If you have any comments/suggestions to this, feel free to post them

While I agree that Consular is chosen far more often than the others and that there need to be adjustments made, I think there are more creative ways we could make this work beyond just adding movement points/subtracting force levels etc.

I’d personally like to see Force Users have access to a certain skillset based on the Force-Class they choose, making it a little more important of a decision.

For example:  Give Guardians some additional combat abilities.  (As an idea:  Stances (like in stock SMAUG):

Berserker Stance: 30% increase damage dealt, 30% increased damage taken (or 30% more hits taken) + cannot be shoved/cannot shove/cannot flee.

Aggressive stance: 20% increased damage dealt (hits landed), 20% increased damage taken (hits taken?)

Defensive stance: 20% less/20% less

Passive stance: Less hits taken/dealt.

Sentinels would get an ability to absorb damage taken by an Ally in battle, or perhaps some offensive attacks added to their arsenal.  (Slash anyone?  Maybe a bladestorm type ability, something resembling circle for BHers), Maybe an improved pursuit ability?  A renamed lunge perhaps?  Make so these offensive attacks use MV as a resource instead of FP.

Consulars get added healing abilities, some sort of shielding, vitality can be cast on others as Jedi, Dark Siders get offensive spells like a pumped up Force Lightning, or the ability to add lightning elemental damage to their lightsaber attacks.

Sages get support abilities like boosting the MP of their allies, increased saves vs force debuffs, plus a group of offensive debuffs of their own.

Just some ideas.

In addition to making force classes more unique, this would mix up force combat quite a bit.

Actually, I agree with Andvari here. I think looking at it that way would be a lot better. It’d not only mix up combat and make them more unique, but it’d give people more of a reason to pick things other than Consular.

I have to admit that Andvari’s list of idea’s are…wildly awesome.

Incidently, Consular is often more of a weakness, as natural force rolls pick it a heck of a lot, not realizing that 10 more force levels but staying at 27 combat*, is a terrible idea for their Jawa/Verpine/Omwati/Other weak race. And bought forcers are usually not that great in general, plus they more often go for what they feel are twinky combo’s, IE, random race and espionage/smuggler main, again stiffing them with lower combat (Which isn’t AS important with forcers, but its still pretty relevent.)

* Just a random example. Not really sure what class/race combo actually gets 27 combat…

I forgot to mention that I’d have the Subclasses keep their Level bonuses.

Additionally, bring back Dark Lord of the Sith as a subclass and give it a special set of abilities.  The true Dark Lord should have some advantages nobody else has, and there should be some incentive for another Sith to backstab him and take the mantle.

(I forgot where the helpfile is, but for example:)

Dark Lord of the Sith:  +60 com, +30 smu, +60 dip, +60 lead, +10 flevel, +35 FP per level

Improved Force Lightning (does decent damage to even 100+ forcers), force conceal (even if not high enough for it in the first place), Force Crush (deals damage from range, ticks over time) as examples.

For anyone not familiar how this works, there is one DLOTS set up in the timeline, he takes a “Sith Apprentice” who, unlike a standard apprentice, is set up as his successor in case of retardation.  I’d also add a deal where if another Sith Lord kills the DLOTS, they take up that mantle.

I agree with a lot of what Andvari posted. I do however have one question. As per the OP, are people buying force in such abundance that we need to honestly worry if people are rolling combat characters and selecting Consular? I don’t keep track of who is buying Force over who is naturally rolling it, so my view of this not being that much of a problem might be wrong.

TL;DR:

Buff forcers please, and give them more abilities to play with.

Try reading.

Andvari’s idea. When I hit the lottery, this will be the first thing Walldo codes for LotJ.

The problem with any Force improvements/additions is that they’re inaccessible to all but a privileged few and there are piles of other things that should take priority.

@Corey, the majority of forcers I met this TL were bought(not including those apped for at BoT), and only few were actually naturally rolled. If I remember correctly only 1 of those that bought was not a consular.

And I do agree with Andvari, giving each subclass its own skills etc. The one reason I did not post that exact same idea though is very simply:  It will take ages to implement, and would be a project that wouldn’t go into effect for probably years. This is why I simply came up with a balancing of the sub classes themselves.

And looking at what Ocerion said, removing the +10 force bonus would actually solve that problem as well; people making terrible forcers by picking Consular for the force level boost.  However in a lot of cases that +10 force boost gives Consulars just an unfair advantage over other subclasses, and thats why I think it should simply be removed.

As for the DLOTS, help darklordofthesith

Dark Lord of the Sith Force Sub-Class Details:
+40 Combat
+40 Diplomacy
+40 Smuggling
+15 Force
30 FP/level

I’m not sure if this is still being used today though

Consular isn’t that great, really. You can really only afford to pick it if you’re a combat main. Otherwise you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

It’s been known for a long time that Force has been needing a major overhaul. Personally, I don’t get the way skill distributions are put through the Force system.

Guardian:

+90 Combat (Massive boost, but okay. Think it could stand to lose a few)

+20 Piloting (Not a major/overpowering boost, but okay)

+30 Smuggling (Why Guardians for this? Makes more sense in Sentinel. Throw this out and give +Medical or +Leadership)

Sentinel:

+30 Combat (Okay)

+60 Piloting (I think this could be swapped for +Espionage or +Slicer)

+60 Diplomacy (WTF were they thinking with this? Throw this out and put in the +30 Smuggling from Guardian)

Consular:

+90 Diplomacy (ech…should be halved imo)

+60 Leadership (I…suppose)

+30 Medical (Add this after halving Diplomacy)

+10 Force Levels (Aside from Sage, this is the only Force class that gets any kind of boost to the Force itself which is fairly dumb imo. All Force classes should have some kind of “benefit through the Force” to give)

Sage:

+40 Piloting (Doesn’t really make sense. Throw it out and put in +Medical or +Leadership)

+20 Diplomacy (On the fence with this one.)

+50 Science (Ehhhhh… would much rather see this halved and thrown into +Engineering)

Padawan Exp Bonus (Like Consular, Sage is the only other class that offers any kind of “bonus through the Force.” All Force classes should have some kind of benefit, but they do not. Should be all or nothing imo)

Personally, I like Andvari’s ideas, but he’s right in that there are way more important fixes that need to be done before Forcers are overhauled. I would like to see them eventually wean away from giving free +levels to Forcers and instead go to unique skill sets for each Force class like he mentioned in his posts. It would certainly make for more interesting choices and combat tactics.

Its too bad about alignments because I had an idea for a spell system where your abilities/spells improved or were reduced depending on where you were on the x/y scale of things (x being good to evil, y lawful to chaotic).