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December 2, 2007 at 9:26 am #361
[b:1kt2nsxf]murder <victim> perm[/b:1kt2nsxf] should always perm, ignoring hospitalization. There are some things even the most miraculous Star Wars technology can’t heal, like decapitation or a vaporized brain stem.
The claimbounty skill could go, since it’d no longer have any purpose.
[b:1kt2nsxf]murder <victim> hospital[/b:1kt2nsxf] sends the victim to the hospital if one is in the area; otherwise you get a failure message like "[i:1kt2nsxf]Emergency medical care is not available in the area! Use ‘murder <victim> perm’ if you wish to permanently kill this person.[/i:1kt2nsxf]"
Hospitalization would be more serious, and the victim would be prevented from logging in for a set period of time (random between 6-24 hours?). The victim, and only the victim, would know exactly how long his character is incapacitated. A random number of credits (20,000-200,000?) would be deducted from his bank accounts. If he can’t afford this, then his accounts are simply emptied and closed, leaving him with no money.
There’d be a "deadly" option ([b:1kt2nsxf]config +/-deadly[/b:1kt2nsxf]) that would affect all your attacks, including sniping and grenades. When turned on, it would hospitalize your victims if the area is safe, and perm them otherwise. When this is off, they’d reach a minimum of -490 HP as usual.
Clan war status will no longer affect whether someone is hospitalized; however, if a clan member is hospitalized on a hostile planet, they will be automatically jailed upon their recovery. This could be expanded to include people with warrants set by the governing clan.
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December 2, 2007 at 2:36 pm #3679
If it isn’t broken, don’t fix it.
Furthermore, the recommended "fix" is just… horrible. It would demote RP, promote killing, and either force the "safe" flag to be used more often (the real one that prevents the murder/shove/grab/et cetera commands, not the faux-safe hospital flag), or turn the vast majority of the mud into "open season."
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December 2, 2007 at 10:08 pm #3690
I like the warrants/jailing part, but.. wtf
That’s the exact opposite of the point of the hospital code.
Sounds like somebody got fucked over by accidentally perming someone in a hospital-safe room….
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December 2, 2007 at 11:49 pm #3692"RenegadeJedi":192mibz7 wrote:If it isn’t broken, don’t fix it.[/quote:192mibz7]
The hospital code fixed people being accidentally permed in places that are normally relatively safe, like cities. This has always been bypassed fairly easily if you want to perm someone. People abused hospitals by suiciding or blowing themselves up. Suicide was fixed, and the ‘murder perm’ system was put in to avoid both accidental/unfair perms and hospitalizations.The ‘murder perm’ code reduced hospitalization to two functions:
A) Requiring people to carry their unconscious victims inside a ship or specialized execution room before perming them. This is unrealistic, and it’s rare that it ever actually saves anyone. There was no major increase in perms during era 1 when hospitals were all disabled.
People can send their friends to the hospital to protect them from being captured. Unrealistic and fucking stupid.My suggestion resolves all of these issues.
"RenegadeJedi":192mibz7 wrote:Furthermore, the recommended "fix" is just… horrible. It would demote RP, promote killing, and either force the "safe" flag to be used more often (the real one that prevents the murder/shove/grab/et cetera commands, not the faux-safe hospital flag), or turn the vast majority of the mud into "open season."[/quote:192mibz7]
Care to explain how? I’m not proposing changes to the rules. If anything, this makes people more accountable for their actions."Fishy":192mibz7 wrote:I like the warrants/jailing part, but.. wtfThat’s the exact opposite of the point of the hospital code.[/quote:192mibz7]
Yeah, it’s a change. Is that necessarily a bad thing?
"Fishy":192mibz7 wrote:Sounds like somebody got fucked over by accidentally perming someone in a hospital-safe room….[/quote:192mibz7]
Um, no?
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December 3, 2007 at 3:19 pm #3707"Adriav":3c23xqg3 wrote:Care to explain how? I’m not proposing changes to the rules. If anything, this makes people more accountable for their actions.
[/quote:3c23xqg3]
Care to explain how your idea would -foster- RP?
Furthermore, care to show when in your entire fucking message you ever once mentioned that along with this change, the entire perm rules would have to rewritten to be more strict?
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December 3, 2007 at 4:22 pm #3709"RenegadeJedi":2f9y0ts8 wrote:Care to explain how your idea would -foster- RP?[/quote:2f9y0ts8]
No, not really. Not every little change has to revolutionize the game. It’s just a small step towards realism that, as far as I can tell, doesn’t negatively effect game balance."RenegadeJedi":2f9y0ts8 wrote:Furthermore, care to show when in your entire fucking message you ever once mentioned that along with this change, the entire perm rules would have to rewritten to be more strict?[/quote:2f9y0ts8]
Nope. That’s your line of bullshit, not mine.I think I’ll go talk to a brick wall now. Maybe it’ll explain some legitimate concerns and constructive criticism.
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December 3, 2007 at 7:09 pm #3713"Adriav":3ayfpigv wrote:If anything, this makes people more accountable for their actions.
[/quote:3ayfpigv]
Then, if it doesn’t require any rewriting of the rules, how does it make anyone more ACCOUNTABLE?
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December 3, 2007 at 7:22 pm #3714
Oh, the drama. It burns! Please do me a favor and read what I post and the relevant portions of a dictionary before replying.
Actually, I’ll save you the trouble and spell it out for you:
1) "If anything."
2) Accountability doesn’t necessarily translate to "stricter rules." Clearer understanding of someone’s intentions can lead to accountability.
3) No, I don’t want stricter PK rules. [b:2w17qdff]If anything,[/b:2w17qdff] they’re too strict as they are.
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December 3, 2007 at 7:56 pm #3716"Adriav":1m4xlbbx wrote:1) "If anything."[/quote:1m4xlbbx]
You’re defending yourself by stating that entire portion of your message was irrelevant, and making your entire "fix" nothing but a faulty attempt at realism. Star Wars is -not- realistic. LotJ is -not- realistic. On top of it, your "fix" isn’t realistic, either: when you kill someone, you have no choice whether they go to the hospital or not. Sure, you can check their vital signs, but medical miracles have happened; furthermore, who’s to say that some old grandmother isn’t sitting with 911 on speed-dial while she watches you from her bedroom window? No one, which is why for a perm to "stick," it has to be somewhere where there would be NO LEGITIMATE OBSERVERS.
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December 4, 2007 at 12:12 pm #3734
I’m curious. Does your flaming straw man tactic ever actually fool anyone?
"RenegadeJedi":38v423wn wrote:On top of it, your "fix" isn’t realistic, either: when you kill someone, you have no choice weither they go to the hospital or not.[/quote:38v423wn]
[color=#FF00FF:38v423wn][size=150:38v423wn]
l2spell[/size:38v423wn][/color:38v423wn] <!– s:roll: –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!– s:roll: –>Now go troll some other thread.
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December 4, 2007 at 2:43 pm #3735"Adriav":3okjlpjt wrote:[color=#FF00FF:3okjlpjt][size=150:3okjlpjt]
l2spell[/size:3okjlpjt][/color:3okjlpjt][/quote:3okjlpjt]
Do you really want me to get into your grammatical mistakes, Adriav? I’d held it back, out of fear of Walldo’s tendency to go apeshit over the smallest grammatical corrections by me.
On top of it, addressing the actual statement tends to help, too. Red Herrings might work on the idiot crowd, Adriav… then again, they might not: you would’ve fooled yourself.
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December 4, 2007 at 8:53 pm #3743
MOORTAAAL KOOMBAAT! No, I don’t like the idea at all. There’s nothing wrong with the current system we have in imho.
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December 4, 2007 at 9:47 pm #3744"Troll":2p2vwaas wrote:MOORTAAAL KOOMBAAT! No, I don’t like the idea at all. There’s nothing wrong with the current system we have in imho.[/quote:2p2vwaas]
Indeed. The only change I would make to the system right now is to increase the hospital fee to 20k or so.
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December 8, 2007 at 4:08 am #3779"RenegadeJedi":3bwa394e wrote:Do you really want me to get into your grammatical mistakes, Adriav? I’d held it back, out of fear of Walldo’s tendency to go apeshit over the smallest grammatical corrections by me.[/quote:3bwa394e]
It’s not that your spelling and grammar are wrong. It’s that you’re an annoying grammar Nazi and a hypocrite, though I’m sure you, like everyone else here, already knew that."RenegadeJedi":3bwa394e wrote:On top of it, addressing the actual statement tends to help, too. Red Herrings might work on the idiot crowd, Adriav… then again, they might not: you would’ve fooled yourself.[/quote:3bwa394e]
Only "the idiot crowd" would need me to bother with it, but if you insist…"RenegadeJedi":3bwa394e wrote:…when you kill someone, you have no choice whether they go to the hospital or not. Sure, you can check their vital signs, but medical miracles have happened; furthermore, who’s to say that some old grandmother isn’t sitting with 911 on speed-dial while she watches you from her bedroom window? No one, which is why for a perm to "stick," it has to be somewhere where there would be NO LEGITIMATE OBSERVERS.[/quote:3bwa394e]
Medical miracles like a successfully reattached head? Not even in Star Wars. Anyone with a blaster or vibro-blade can easily make sure their victim won’t survive. Sure, some grandmotherly witness might land them in jail, but it won’t do the victim any good.The attacker always has the option of inflicting unsurvivable harm. My suggestion reflects this. It also creates an option to leave the victim for dead, in which case the grandmothers and paramedics come along and perform all the necessary miracles.
"RenegadeJedi":3bwa394e wrote:The only change I would make to the system right now is to increase the hospital fee to 20k or so.[/quote:3bwa394e]
What would this do? The extra 15k won’t make a difference unless the victim is a new character. More importantly, what kind of hospital determines treatment by digging for cash in an unconscious patient’s wallet?Now then. Constructive criticism or GTFO.
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December 9, 2007 at 2:32 pm #3811"Adriav":wsqbeydh wrote:Sure, some grandmotherly witness might land them in jail, but it won’t do the victim any good.[/quote:wsqbeydh]
Alright, then add a 50% chance that when you perm someone on a planet, you’re instantly sent to jail & all your possessions are taken away."Adriav":wsqbeydh wrote:More importantly, what kind of hospital determines treatment by digging for cash in an unconscious patient’s wallet?[/quote:wsqbeydh]
It has nothing to do with realism; LotJ isn’t Star Wars, and Star Wars isn’t real life. It has to do with inflation. Training costs rose from 200 to 2000 credits; ships have tripled in price; armor costs have almost quadrupled. Yet, hospital costs have stayed the same?
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