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April 5, 2014 at 11:26 am #23944
This is probably not gonna be a popular suggestion but I’m going to make it anyways.
- Statement of Intent
The intention of this idea is to foster an environment in which Engineering Clans are no longer pre-supplied clans. They are created by people ICly and through the capturing of resources and brokering of deals with the major governmental clans.
It takes develop away from being the sole property of major clans (because it’s not like they’re the only ones who can afford develop) and puts it in the hands of any group with the time and money to invent something new.
It makes engineering clans more relavent by making them the sole source of engineering and ship making developments and allows the major governmental clans to focus on being major governmental clans.- Statement of Reasoning
Traditionally, governments do very little of their own research. They research by funding the research of other third party groups. Governments also do very little of their own production and instead contract with third party companies to make what they need. In a modern example, we paid Lockheed Martin to make the F-16. We then paid them to produce it. The government of the United States didn’t actually develop the F-16, they simply funded it and provided a direction to the company.
In a series example, the Kuat Shipyards weren’t actually part of the Empire. It’s true that the Imperials utilized the station, but the company there, Kuat Drive Yards, was the one actually doing all the work. The Empire simply funded their shipyard and provided a direction to KDY. Many planets did this actually and before the Imperials KDY provided ships to the Republic. KDY also sold many ships and weapons to other world leaders for defense purposes.- Bullet Point List of Suggestions
- Remove Develop from Governmental Clans (GR, Empire, Hapans, etc)
- Make 3 shipyards
- Each Shipyard can be captured and contested by groups
- Anyone can use develop, but they still need to follow the log and think rules
- All engineering clans must come from formclan
- Detailed Explanations
Remove Develop from Governmental Clans – The fact is that since clans can develop, they really don’t need engineering clans. In some Eras, engineering clans rely entirely on the private sector for their profit and a lot of times there are only so many people to sell to and it leads to stagnation. In reality, governments really shouldn’t be using develop to begin with. That’s not their purpose. They have planets and people to govern, they should be leasing their developing out to other people. Sign a contract with Incom or the Trade Federation for exclusive use of their facilities. I’m sure the engineering clans won’t mind. And if there’s an era where both engineering clans refuse to support the government? Well, you shouldn’t have any technology.
Make 3 Shipyards – Who says that every engineering clan needs to buildships? Who says that every engineering clan needs to make weapons? Incom was a largely ship producing engineering clan in canon. KDY also focused mainly on ship engineering but had a couple weapons on the side. Corellian Engineering Company was focused on cargo ships and shielding technology. So on and So forth. Each engineering clan does not need to have the same focuses. Merrson for instance never made ships, they only made weapons and that was okay. They had some of the best weapons in the galaxy at the time while other people were making the best ships. To facilitate that, make 3 shipyards. Only three engineering clans can makeships and they have to fight for and defend their shipyard. Whether these shipyards are in space or on the surface of planets I leave up to imms to decide.
Each Shipyard can be captured and contested by group – Following the above, each shipyard should be contestable. That is, another engineering clan could attempt to capture one of the shipyards for their own purposes. Given how blueprints work with custom ships, I imagine this should only be possible given build up to it and think logs so that the imms aren’t suddenly surprised by the addition of a new clan in the shipyard. However, the idea is that by making them contestable it will encourage three things. 1) Engineering Clan Competition, 2) Engineering Clans making contracts with other clans for defense, 3) Specialization. That is that it would make engineering clans think twice about capturing a shipyard and make them more than just ‘those giant ship producers.’
Anyone can use develop, but they still need to follow the log and think rules – The fact of the matter is that very few actual developments occur in each era. Having been in an engineering clan in many eras, most of the time on develop is spent arguing about which area to focus in. By allowing anyone with a group, the time, credits and the logs to develop it should lead to more developments. I understand that part of the reason develop is restricted is so that the imms could easily distribute those created parts. For that reason, I do think that develop should still only be useable by a recognized ‘clan.’ Or at the least, that someone who is using the develop command should own a shop so the imms can put it on a private vendor. However, I could understand the need to hold develop to a clan made by formclan. So take this as more of a dream suggestion where I understand that some regulation needs to occur for the sanity of the imms.
All engineering clans must come from formclan – Self explanatory. All engineering clans have to be made ICly through the era and by using formclan. Why? Because this will separate the lazy from the men. And if someone goes through the effort to create a clan using formclan, they’re probably gonna stick with it and be less likely to drive it into the ground because of boredom.
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April 7, 2014 at 12:54 am #23946
hey apparently your bullet list of points are breaking the appearance of this thread you should edit it.
It takes develop away from being the sole property of major clans
What? Major clans are not the only ones who develop things.
It makes engineering clans more relavent by making them the sole source of engineering and ship making developments
Just worth noting they are still the sole/main source of ship construction.
All engineering clans must come from formclan
This is a bad idea for a lot of reasons. Engineering clans are a cornerstone of the LOTJ economy and gameplay; relegating them to essentially random player inspiration would be a fundamental change to how the game works.
Remove Develop from Governmental Clans – The fact is that since clans can develop, they really don’t need engineering clans
The relationship between governments and engineering clans has always been sort of in flux but I think you are way off base here. Where do government clans acquire new capital ships?
Who says that every engineering clan needs to buildships? Who says that every engineering clan needs to make weapons?
Is anyone saying this? We’ve had engineering clans that specifically focus on ships and we’ve had ones that specifically focus on weapons/armor/etc.
When you say three shipyards do you mean three engineering clans or just that engineering clans would fight over three ship-building facilities? This would imply we have four engineering clans (to keep it competitive). Even if we reduced this to two shipyards/three engineering clans… three engineering clans are probably too many.
The fact of the matter is that very few actual developments occur in each era.
I guess this is subject to opinion but I don’t think this is true at all.
Having been in an engineering clan in many eras, most of the time on develop is spent arguing about which area to focus in
This strikes me as a problem with that particular clan’s leadership problem, not a mechanic issue. Not that the development mechanic is perfect.
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April 7, 2014 at 1:29 am #23948
“Having been in an engineering clan in many eras, most of the time on develop is spent arguing about which area to focus in
This strikes me as a problem with that particular clan’s leadership problem, not a mechanic issue. Not that the development mechanic is perfect.”
^ This is the sole heart of the problem…especially with leaders who just stay online afk to prevent being inactive and overthrown, but do absolutely nothing.
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April 7, 2014 at 4:25 am #23949
Hey walldo, just some responses.
What? Major clans are not the only ones who develop things.
Major clan defined as any clan listed on the clans listing and can be researched using showclan. Unless something changed that I didn’t notice develop is still relegated to just those clans.Just worth noting they are still the sole/main source of ship construction.
Not necessarily. Anyone with a blueprint and buildship can use the public garages to build ships. This has never been the case really. In fact, there was an era where a Government clan (I believe the hapans) built all their own capital ships.This is a bad idea for a lot of reasons. Engineering clans are a cornerstone of the LOTJ economy and gameplay; relegating them to essentially random player inspiration would be a fundamental change to how the game works.
I agree that this is a major change, but there’s no reason to not do it. Engineering clans are a cornerstone, but so are independent engineering businesses. By the time the major clans get done dicking around in each era to start producing things there are already at least 10 independent contractors that have been doing the selling before that. So removing engineering clans from being pre-populated would basically have no affect on the game IMHO beyond the time it takes one to form and start making ships.‘The relationship between governments and engineering clans has always been sort of in flux but I think you are way off base here. Where do government clans acquire new capital ships?’
Build them? Again, anyone with a blueprint and buildship can build one in a public garage. And as noted before, an era has seen a governmental clan spend their entire era building their own cap ships.When you say three shipyards do you mean three engineering clans or just that engineering clans would fight over three ship-building facilities? This would imply we have four engineering clans (to keep it competitive). Even if we reduced this to two shipyards/three engineering clans… three engineering clans are probably too many.
I mean three ship-building facilities. Maybe there are 10 engineering clans one timeline that are all active. There are 3 ship building facilities. The idea is to make it so clans make alliances. Now there’s actually a meaning to building weapons exclusively for the empire, they protect your station since they want you to build their weapons and ships. The idea is one for each government and one independent. How it would go? Who knows.Is anyone saying this? We’ve had engineering clans that specifically focus on ships and we’ve had ones that specifically focus on weapons/armor/etc.
I don’t think anyone can argue with a straight face that they see engineering clans as anything more than ship builders. Armor, Weapons. Secondary pursuits. The primary purpose is ships. Ships because trading is where the money is. So while they may occasionally go off base to research armor or weapons or even a cybernetic, their primary purpose is still ships.As always, these are my opinions and I don’t disagree stagnant leadership in relation to the problem about arguing about focus.
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April 7, 2014 at 10:03 am #23950
What are you talking about? How can you make such a huge argument about something when you barely play and you don’t even know what the actual definition of a major clan is? If you type clans it even delineates between major and minor, how have you not figured this out??? You try to seem like some huge authority on this but you can’t even define the terms you’re discussing. Every clan can develop. If you are not in a clan, you can’t develop.
All I see here is that you want to be able to do engineering clans without being in an engineering clan and you want governments to have shipyards, both of which are not very good ideas. Clans being entirely about ships is BS, two of the most important clans in the game last TL subverted this, in your opinion, hard and fast trope.
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April 7, 2014 at 8:46 pm #23952
It’s worth saying that while it may be in a major clans best interest to spend as little as they can the players still realize the need to involve engineering clans in day-to-day endeavors (ship building, developing, weapons/armor), if only for the sake of fostering roleplay for more than just the players within a major clan.
As for the Hapans building their own ships there were hugely significant extenuating circumstances which caused that to come about, and since the rule was implemented where major clans cannot have a garage the sole source of ship construction has been engineering groups. (Not to mention they did so at great risk, in a public garage).
When it comes to one clan building ships while the other builds weapons, these are paths chosen by the engy clan leaders, usually done in coordination with other engy clans to benefit the mud as a whole. Could all the engy clans choose to build ships and armor/weapons at the same time? Yes, of course. However we have some expeditious engineers on this mud who ICly (as shown in past eras/TL’s) work across borders to make the system run more smoothly. Either engy clan in existence right now could completely switch it up and decide to take a different path by developing something completely different. The status/future of these clans is entirely in the hands of the players (what they develop, who they hire, how much funding they have).
While I agree that develop is an outdated command that needs updating, somehow, it is still something that major clans need to utilize in order to keep things moving forward.
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April 13, 2014 at 2:52 pm #23975
Engineering clans need players. That is what we need to focus on. Making it viable for players to see a benefit from all of there work. Some eras many engineering firms can rise and fall with hardly leaving a mark. A few parts of technology left over. A inactive leader who idles lots can be a very large issue. The fact they are put at such a disadvantage in a RP sense in 2/3 eras can draw up some large issues. Stealing developments has been done by good guy clans, forced mergers done by the Republic? Some ground rules to let them retain progression and RP should be addressed. Since if a government all the sudden needs members or changes there RP? It can ruin the engineering and development aspect of numerous clans.
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